Interesting methodology here, but the examples cited are ridiculous. First of all Billboard Top 100 in recent years contains the worst quality modern pop music out there. So you are starting out with a highly flawed data set.
#musictheory #cosomusic
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Hit songs rely on increasing “harmonic surprise” to hook listeners, study finds | Ars Technica
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/08/hit-songs-rely-on-increasing-harmonic-surprise-to-hook-listeners-study-finds/
The idea of harmonic "surprise" driving listener interest is not new at all, and has been studied before. There is plenty of music from the 1500s that still does this.
To be clear: there is a lot of GREAT pop music out there. I am just saying that most of Billboard is formulaic crap, so that anything that is even remotely "different" stands out in context.
Here is a much better example of what this article is discussing. This is a brilliantly written song.
https://strongsongspodcast.com/episode/single-ladies-by-beyonce
I'm trying to recall the time when most popular music wasn't formulaic crap, and not having great luck.
Recall back to the 70s and maybe the early 80s. After that, it started that downward trend. In my opinion.
@mcfate
Are you discounting the many excellent bands and singer-songwriters from the 60s and 70s??? You can't honestly say that Carol King, Stevie Wonder, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Marvin Gaye, Jimi Hendrix, etc. are formulaic crap.
No, but I can say that most music bought by 14-year-olds was completely formulaic crap. It always has been.
You can't stand around pulling out the stinkers today and ignoring the stinkers from your imaginary halcyon era of unendingly excellent pop music.
There was never any such era.
Perhaps you've forgotten the hits of the 60s like "Henry the Eighth I Am!" or "They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha! Ha!"
They sold millions of copies of those. They were on the radio incessantly.
The Monkees were big in the 60s.
Don't bag on The Monkees. Sure, they were manufactured, but some of their songs were pretty good. Anything that came out of the Wrecking Crew in the late 60s was good musicianship.
I'll give you a couple of examples that aren't just noise. The hooks in these songs are catchy and even the lyrics are beyond formulaic crap. Music is subjective, though, so discussions like this never really resolve anything. 😀
Example #1 - Look Out (Here Comes Tomorrow)
But that song never even made it into the top 20. How's that a "pop hit"?
"Valleri" hit #3 in 1968.
1978 - Van Halen
I bought it. It was all over the radio. It changed rock music and guitar forever. And it was not formulaic crap. Again, in my opinion.
@mikeflstfi
GREAT band!
@mcfate
Queen, Black Sabbath, Rush, Ray Charles, Prince, Talking Heads, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Beach Boys ... I could go on.
I'm not at all sure how to communicate that you can't "prove" there was no bad popular music by appealing to groups that didn't happen to MAKE any.
Tiny Tim, the Archies, the Trashmen, Sonny and Cher, Bobby Goldsboro.
And worse. I COULD GO ON. AT GREAT LENGTH.
@mcfate
You're completely missing the point. That isn't even remotely what I'm doing.
You said that you can't recall a time where most pop music wasn't formulaic crap. I just gave you examples of artists that were highly popular in their time, but were also highly creative and wrote excellent music.
There is obviously bad music in any era. There is no need for strawmen here.
Except all the stuff I've pointed out were literal top-selling hits. They weren't merely "bad music". They sold millions of copies of that crap.
It's literally not a bit different than today.
Queen only had five songs, from five different albums, make it into Billboard's Top Ten during the entire decade of the 1970s.
The Bee Gees had nine, all disco crap.
@mcfate
I think every one of those songs you cited outside of Henry the Eighth are actually quite decent. Dr. Demento is a silly one to cite, because that was meant to be comedy. It is analogous to Spike Jones before it, or Weird Al after.
Okay, this is obvious cherry-picking now. You're misremembering history to make your case.
I'm done.
@mcfate
I have no desire to continue this discussion with you either. Good day.
None of those are pop.
I agree with your assertion about the quality of modern pop music. Do you happen to follow Rick Beato on YouTube? He talks about this a lot.
@mikeflstfi
Yes I do; he's great! I especially loved the episode where he dug into John Bonham, and compared his real performances with quantized versions.
Check out the Strong Songs podcast I linked to also. Kirk doesn't go into quite as much detail as Beato does, but he does a great job of pulling in influences from other songs / artists when analyzing a song.
I will check out the podcast, yes!
Rick has led me along a path of wanting to understand music way beyond what I thought was possible. His theory videos are usually way over my head but I still watch and try to learn something.
at least we are getting this...
Robert Plant and Alison Krauss reunite for another album
Robert Plant & Alison Krauss - Can't Let Go (Official Audio)
^ Also, it is VERY difficult to hear the harmonic shifts in "This is America" during the verses (even for someone with my background). I assert that the only thing "surprising" about that song is the video. I never thought that song was anything special on its own; people are conflating it with the (excellent) video.
(If you think I'm just a #cosoclassical nerd looking down on hip-hop, you're mistaken. I've always been a big fan of artists like Wu-Tang Clan, The Roots, Chance the Rapper.)