Are people stopping to listen?
Is anyone really taking in what he's saying?
Is his sincere and loving work changing any hearts and minds?

How do you think the people are feeling, being preached to by this method?

Are they encouraged? Are they uplifted?
Do they feel judged and condemned?
Does his method make people ask questions, or does it put people in a fight-or-flight frame of mind?

If the latter, what do they do?
Walk away and ignore the message?
Respond aggressively? Defensively?

Also, our preacher stands on his corner, speaking his truth for hours at a time.
He's saying nothing wrong.
He's harming nobody.

But is anybody stopping to listen to him for that whole time?
Does anybody even *have* the time to take in all he's trying to say, in one fell swoop?

Would he be better off breaking down his message into bite sized pieces and sharing them regularly but not all in one go?

Thread continues after I've had my shower.

Ahhhh. That's better.

So in the church, the concept of friendship evangelism is very simple. It's about meeting people where they are, without judgement, recognising the individual and their needs and listening more than we speak.

Now lets apply that to *any* big issue of the day.

Will extended diatribes, broadcast to all and sundry, change hearts and minds? Or will people react as they do to the street preacher, with indifference, mockery or even aggression?

Is it better perhaps to

a) Speak with individuals, giving them the opportunity to ask questions, challenging them where appropriate to think about their viewpoint

b) (and I am aware of the irony given the length of this thread) Keep our message short, concise, succinct. Bitesize chunks of information.

c) remember the *person* we are addressing has feelings just like we do

d) act out of love, first and foremost

We should ALWAYS call out unacceptable behaviour and attitudes of course but...

What if we do that on an individual basis instead of standing on our street corner, book of the law in hand with almost nobody really listening to us?

How about we try that?

It might just change a lot of things for the better.

Peace. Out. ❤️❤️

@stueytheround I have a friend who does it. Not many people respond at all. But those who get to know him tell a story of love and dedication. It's all in the approach. I am a great believer in friendship, then sharing, and by that, I do mean *sharing* - both sides. I've had it up to my ears with "evangelicals" Bible-bashing, but I am perfectly willing to listen, and respectfully disagree if necessary. I love God, I've also learned from others with different tales. IYKWIM?

@stueytheround People believe what they do for varying reasons, some of them very powerful. I like to hear their story before sharing mine. I, too, have been wrong in the past about my beliefs (coming from a cult). There is always much to learn from each other.

@homebird Indeed.
Keep in mind that I am only using evangelism as an illustration here. I'm not *actually* talking about religion, cults, or even politics.
This is entirely a thread about effective communication of ideas.

@stueytheround I think then, the old adage applies. We are given two ears and one mouth for a reason. So many like to "preach", not just religion, but politics, and so on. Everyone thinks they are right. It does us good to *listen* a while longer. Mutual respect.

@stueytheround Most people do NOT respond positively to diatribes. We have to understand where that person is coming from. There are always reasons. We see it on the Internet all the time. Hate breeds hate. Slow down. Listen and learn.

@stueytheround Example. I woke up to last night's conversation on CoSo. It's evident to me, as a white person, that I cannot fathom what black people go through every day. And they probably can't understand my struggles. I hope CoSo will continue to be a place where there is mutual respect, whatever the colour of our skin!

@stueytheround Yes, there have to be boundaries. Discussion is fine. Personal attacks not so fine. Respect is earned, imo.

@stueytheround I've made that my lifestyle for many years, Stuey. Friendship first. I've seen the harm dogmatism can do.

@stueytheround
I think I may have seen parts of what you're referring to Stuey. I've so many filters that I miss a lot of what goes on here, even when I'm following a convo, parts go missing.
That's for a reason, I was really nasty elsewhere 🙄 and have changed my ways, don't want to go back.
It isn't about the topic, nor subject matter. I'll discuss anything calmly and rationally.
It's the insistence that "this is the right way to do it" attitude.
I filter & block that because I have to.😳 😢

@Krysdammit @stueytheround For people to disregard others safety measures and filters is something that really bugs the fuck out of me. I don't care about the race if that person, I care about the fact they are coming across in full on attack mode and no one here wants to deal with it. We get it, life fucking sucks for the poor and the minorities both, we don't need constant reminders of that in this online space. If the person can't stop being abusive or hateful, well, block it is.

@Krysdammit @stueytheround I have an extremely low tolerance for abuse and hate. They want us to change to allow them to speak, speak away, but bring up shit that causes harmful reactions and mental harm to already damaged people trying to heal themselves, that's just straight thoughtless. It's not about rules, it's about protecting the vulnerable and stopping the abuse before it starts.

@Krysdammit @stueytheround And this disregards any skin color, background, or faith. As I said, don't care about those things, I care that they are healthy and conscious of the impact of the words on those that have survived and witnessed similar events in their life time.

@PaganMother
I had that attitude on twitter. You know how hard I struggled with it one night when you talked me down from the ceiling.😂
Some people don't want to listen to anyone. They choose to unload on line. I know that I'll never understand the struggles, fears and discrimination that people of colour experience daily. I'll listen to them tell us about it. I'll keep quiet and learn from them.
Don't need a preachy white person telling me I'm not doing it right.
@stueytheround

@Krysdammit @stueytheround Exactly where I'm concerned. I do not unload on here as often as I wish I could, there's some aspects of my life I'm still processing and undoing the harm of, and that in itself takes a lot of work to heal from. Just being able to communicate at all is a gift that I don't think I could ever fully repay.

@PaganMother
I know that you've had, and continue to have many challenges.💜 I'm really sorry about what you've had to endure. I realize that you've only shared a fraction of it here.💔
Yours is a voice I gladly listen to any time of day or night.
I always learn something from you.🤗
@stueytheround You're usually jovial and a treat on here. Watching you struggling and questioning is no fun at all.😢

@Krysdammit @stueytheround To coin a phrase, I don't expect them to put on my shoes and walk a mile in them without having some kind of remark on how "privileged" I was as an abused, molested and brutally traumatized child in a "white" mutt military family. Nor understand the experience dysphoria has had on my entire life, or the mental conditions I live with. I get they are at risk, I try to secure space as best as I can but the white painting of all of us is intolerance. Period.

@PaganMother
I was an immigrant with 0 English when I went to school. Was beaten up, threatened, death threats. Spat upon. Had things stolen from my desk and punished by teachers for losing those things.
There were no ESL classes back then. Imagine having an enraged teacher "teaching" you all alone every recess. Yup, they lost their recesses too to teach me a little extra. Grade one teacher was brutal, and I mean that literally.
So I understand a little.

@stueytheround

@Krysdammit @stueytheround I had a lot of friends growing up from a multitude of different cultures, my mother and my siblings and I advocate for a few of them to get good tutoring for ESL in the schools we attended and most of my siblings and I ended up fighting with older teachers unwilling to change their schedules and adapt to be learning materials. I'm sorry how the system treated you, Krys.

@PaganMother
It was a long time ago, 63 yrs in fact. Still the memories linger, it's made me more empathetic to people who aren't strong enough, or important enough for others to take care of properly.
It opened my heart to others who suffer and in pain and have no where to turn.
The shouty, preachy ones remind me of the worst bullies. I'll waste no more time on them, they don't deserve it. Their minds usually can't be changed. They suffer from self righteousness.
@stueytheround

@Krysdammit @PaganMother
Thank you both for sharing. ❤️
Please know that I am not *telling* anybody *how* they ought to express themselves, rather I'm offering and asking questions about more constructive ways to go about enabling people to see others' points of view without feeling, or causing people to feel threatened regardless of the subject.

While my thoughts *are* based upon the conversation about race, they equally apply to politics, the environment, equality etc

@Krysdammit @PaganMother

If somebody decides to rant and rage, for whatever reason, I'm not in any position to tell them they *shouldn't* but perhaps I can gently steer them toward a safer, kinder way.

I do ask myself why, given the reasonably large LGBTQIA+ community here, many of whom feel very accepted and welcome, it's not the same for BIPOC?

@stueytheround @PaganMother
From what I gathered yesterday, this person is also white and concluded that coso is very white. I don't know the statistics of our pop here, but they're probably right.
I've had convos with ppl on here about LGBTQIA+ from the perspective of a mom of a trans kiddo, who's learning a lot from her child.
I've worded some posts badly, no one jumped down my throat 'cos they know me.
Can't see a problem for BIPOC, but then I've no experience of being one.🤷‍♀️

@stueytheround
Stuey, I realized that when I responded to you. You're one of the good ones on here. You're really trying to think this through and how to be helpful.
You're sincere in your religious beliefs and your wish to befriend everyone. I used to be devout a long time ago and understand that feeling. I miss it, maybe it will return one day?
You remind me of my baby sis. She's a gentle soul who wants to believe that everyone is a new bff.🤗
Some can't be.💔
@PaganMother

@stueytheround A few thoughts:

If God told a street preacher to do that then he should do it. There's a reason. However, we're TERRIBLE at thinking we know what God is telling us to do. It's often Satan that we're hearing and obeying.

Scripture seems to indicate a better way with Romans 12:15 and we have the example of Jesus who never did that. That way is to befriend people first where they are. Get to know people when times are good and they'll trust you to help them in bad times. 👇

@danielbsmith Please take note that I'm *not* actually talking about preaching the gospel or *any* kind of religious expression but using it as an example of communicating an idea. Hopefully the whole thread makes that clear.

@stueytheround I do. I was trying to respond to both (and I guess my struggle to do that came through too). I hope my explanation and the verse at the end are clear. I think a friendly approach works better regardless of the context. There's psychology to back that up BTW.

@danielbsmith Ah good. So long as I haven't caused you confusion.

@stueytheround One caution, friend, if the goal is not to be kind and show love, but rather to do those things to achieve a “conversion” then you’re gaslighting. The love and kindness aren’t genuine, they’re a ploy to achieve a goal. They’re the sales pitch.

Unless you’re prepared to continue that way without any hope of conversion, you’re not being a friend.

@sfleetucker Oh totally! I'm simply using it as an example of another, possibly kinder way to talk about difficult subjects. Oftentimes, everyone needs to shout about important things and minorities of all kinds probably moreso.
If we want to *teach* each other, then the love and respect of friendship *first* is vital in my opinion.
It's certainly not about "preaching" in any sense of the word, but informing.
I will, however, no longer criticise someone for screaming out their truth!

😂 shower thoughts are also valuable! ♥️ @stueytheround

@stueytheround In today's climate, any street "preacher" is seen as a fanatic. The odd person will stop and talk, but not many. I much prefer getting to know people in all their shapes and sizes. Even on the Internet.

@homebird That's exactly where I'm heading with this!

@stueytheround You are already a very caring, amenable person, Stuey. I can't see you having any trouble making friends. 😀

@stueytheround

Harming nobody? Saying nothing wrong? I'd have to disagree. From my perspective he is spreading a message of narcissistic manipulation, anti-science & victim-blaming. The theology of the Bible is, from my perspective, deeply problematic, & reinforces very harmful values & attitudes. If nothing else, magical thinking discourages critical thinking, & I am not inclined to let such "preaching" go without challenge.

¢¢ԅ(•_•)

@FernLovebond You're entitled to that, but I *was* only using it as a metaphor. I don't actually agree with street preaching for some of the same reasons. Your reaction to it is *exactly* the reaction some people here on coso have when they disagree with someone who gets "preachy" on *any* subject and that is precisely what I was driving at and why I was seeking an alternative. The same goes for the "friendship evangelism" part.
I drew from my personal experiences to paint a picture.

@stueytheround
For many of us across the big pond, I'm not referring to coso, I'm talking about ppl I know irl, the words evangelism, evangelical give us the heebie-jeebies.
I've read your thread and know that you don't mean this in a religious sense.
I respect ppl who truly believe and are devout, used to be one of them once upon a time.
Evangelicals have run amok over here though, and are downright frightening to many.
I'm interested to see what you come up with.😉

@stueytheround

The only way I have seen online discussion work around contentious topics is in heavily moderated forums specifically for those topics and they still get very heated. And I’ve been on the internet pre www. I’ve had to side step plenty to be respectful of others’ beliefs I don’t share and focus on the topics where our minds do meet.

…>>>

@Museek @stueytheround I remember the old SNL "CounterPoint" skits. "Jane, you ignorant slut." Debate devolves quickly.

@stueytheround

As for the street corner.. IRL most people don’t respond well to people shouting their beliefs on a street corner.

They respond better to action. Churches around here who are feeding people, being a living example of their faith .. those are the only people I’ll personally listen to because I respect what they’re doing. Even if I don’t share their personal belief.

Hope my two cents is helpful. 😀

@stueytheround There is always pushback when people feel forced.

And there should be.. healthy boundaries are a good thing.

@Museek Very. Thank you.
So if Coso is our street corner, yes it's fine to stand and shout our truth and nobody ought to try to prevent it or criticize them for it, but perhaps real change happens once the dust has cleared and we can have a quiet chat over coffee.

@stueytheround I like this..

for example, I’m pretty sure any Native American will tell you how difficult it is to live within a social or legal framework based upon beliefs that were never intended to include their way of life but they’ll also tell you that there are places where there can be mutual understanding and agreement. I use this example because it’s relevant and relevant to so many societal issues that affect us all and it’s a minority voice that isn’t heard enough.

@Museek I was originally going to tag a few folk including you, into this but I decided against it because I didn't want to make anybody feel obliged to say anything. I'm glad you have joined the conversation because I respect your heritage and voice.

@stueytheround thanks Stuey. I appreciate it. Only giving my perspective. I can’t speak for others. Saw the conversation though and decided to say something. Hope you have a good day. Thanks for the chat. ☕️

@stueytheround I think @Museek makes some fantastic points. I don't respond well to a complete stranger lecturing me saying "This is your job". No it's not. But conversely, someone posting what they did that made a difference gets my respect and I think helps others make a difference

I still maintain though after watching the last day or two that the gif I posted last night stands. Something that was never an issue here is suddenly one, and I can't help think there are reasons behind that

@BillyBones @stueytheround @Museek beautiful discussion. I personally feel that while you can be passionate about a topic you also have to leave room for others to grow at their own pace without trying to force them to where you wish them to be. Many things and changes do not happen overnight like we wish.

@BillyBones @stueytheround @Museek You can not force others into conversations simply because you wish it to happen. that is why it is up to those who have the disposition to have the starting discussions even more so that others will start to feel more comfortable with stepping in. Also, people need to learn when to step away BEFORE a discussion gets heated.

@stueytheround @Museek ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

@stueytheround @Museek I'm all for a quiet chat over coffee.. does it include cake?

@homebird I think cake is essential! @Museek

@stueytheround @homebird @Museek

@NiveusLepus @stueytheround @homebird 😂😂