Think this through before dismissing it Ask yourself what police response times are where you live, and how police are likely to approach you. Contrast with someone living in a very different situation than your own.
Do Liberals want to ban all weapons? News to me.
Responsible, uncrazy and unviolent people who've taken safety classes in the use and fire of arms should be able to own weapons. That's my take on it.
That's a tower so ivory it's a straw man and the propagation of a lame "Liberal" stereotype.
@TheAbbotTrithemius
Well, I'm a Liberal and I don't want to ban firearms. It wasn't a sweeping generalization, but it is true that the majority of gun restrictions either proposed or enacted come from liberal politicians. It's also true that the cat majority of those policies that get enacted to little or nothing to reduce gun violence.
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
That's oversimplistic, and not supported by the data. Stronger guns laws correlate quite well with fewer deaths via guns.
The problems arise because we have no consistency, so there's a patchwork of widely varying state laws.
Having strong gun control laws in Illinois only helps you so much when they have very weak ones in Ohio and Indiana.
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/facts/gun-violence-statistics/
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
In Japan, you're allowed to have fifty rounds of ammo. Period.
You want another bullet, you have to turn in used brass before you can have it.
@mcfate
Giffords is not a reliable source of data on this subject.
Please take a read through this, and the referenced data.
https://ectsports.com/2018/04/03/debunking-anti-gun-giffords-law-centers-gun-law-scorecard/
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
Wow, is that ever a shitty debunking. They attempt to conflate gun-related deaths with murders to make their case, for starts.
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
This isn't even good lying with statistics.
@mcfate
And Giffords is including suicides in "gun violence" to boost those numbers to support their position. Both things are bad, but they are not the same nor do they have the same root causes.
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
You're saying that suicides don't constitute violence? That's the statistical hill you want to die on here?
Well, okey-dokey, then.
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
They don't have the same "root causes", but they're both facilitated the same way by easier access to firearms.
@mcfate
Would you call a suicide "violent" if a person chose to OD on painkillers instead? I think that someone in a mental state such that they are contemplating suicide should not have easy access to firearms, but if they cross that bridge, then the gun is just a means to an end. To call their death violent, and equivalent to a gang drive-by simply because if the method chosen is ridiculous.
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
๐
That's a neat appeal to emotion you tossed in at the end there.
No, I don't have to lump all suicides together to suit you. Killing oneself with a gun is a violent death, by any reasonable definition of the term "violence."
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
Feel free to have a look at how the World Health Organization defines "violence".
https://www.who.int/violenceprevention/approach/definition/en/
@voltronic @TheAbbotTrithemius
Me, I'm gonna go with the World Health Organization on this one, rather than "ECT Sports", okay?
@mcfate
If there was an appeal to emotion, it was unintentional.
The article I linked is decidedly from a right-leaning source, but the supporting material, particularly from NIJ, is not.
If you want to argue against their definitions, fine. Otherwise I think we're done.
Suits me. I've pointed out the completely dishonest reasoning, which you seemingly endorse, so there's not much more to say.
@mcfate
As have I pointed out what I believe is dishonest reasoning on your end. I'm not moved by your argument and clearly nor are you by mine.
Have a pleasant evening.
@voltronic @mcfate @TheAbbotTrithemius
TBH, I don't particularly care that 2/3rds of the people killed by guns are suicides. Fewer guns would mean fewer successful suicides too.
It's a massive dilemma with too much charged language for there to be solutions to the issue, which I think there are very practical ones that probably would be acceptable to both sides, but the 2nd Amendment isn't just about guns anymore. It's a cultural battle cry and an excuse for people like the guy you quoted to demonize anyone with half a brain as ivory tower liberals, which is pathetic and laughable, yet it will be taken as an accepted truth by those who need to hate.
@TheAbbotTrithemius @voltronic
I enjoy the "I might have to defend myself!" argument. The fact is, hardly anyone successfully defends themselves with a gun.
Did you know that trained police officers only hit what they aim at about one time in five in real life shootouts?
https://www.npr.org/2018/04/13/602143823/how-often-do-people-use-guns-in-self-defense
I do. Learning how to shoot a gun is as much about learning how to stay calm and breath evenly and not freak the fuck out while someone is shooting at you, as much as it is about aiming the gun.
Short answer: YES.
I'd have a little more respect for the other side of this discussion if they'd stop attempting to elevate it and just admit they care more about owning toys that make loud noises than they care about needless deaths.
Toddlers playing with guns kill more people in America than terrorists do.
@voltronic
(With all due respect Volty!! ;-) )