@AskTheDevil But to what extent is that actually true and to what extent is that a perception that is encouraged by right-wing nihilists hoping to harm America? The facts are that 1.) presidents can only do so much to impact an economy (especially positively: they can really wreck things, but are constrained in how much they can build up an entire economy) and 2.) the American economy is _much_ stronger than virtually anywhere, including Europe or East Asia.

@koavf I don't listen to right-wing nihilists, so it's probably not that.

It's because I can see the bills, and the rent, and the housing prices, and the grocery prices, and the wages, when I look them up and speak to the people in my rather considerable tribe. I know from comparison shopping, and from looking at locations in other areas of the country on the same shopping sites. I know it from contacts that still work in the industry.

Nobody is doing better that I know.

@AskTheDevil Of course, if 57% have seen an increase, then that means that 43% have not and I appreciate that. I really hope that the subtle messaging that we are doing _a lot_ better than we could be and than virtually anyone else is _and_ that the current administration is laying down long-term planning for American jobs can somehow reach the electorate for November. :/

@koavf I think if anyone is thinking that Trump would be better for the economy than Biden, there's no message powerful enough to penetrate that amount of abject fantasy.

But the economy is mostly doing better for the people for whom it was already fine. That's nothing to point to as a win, unless you think it's okay for us 43% to drown.

Glad to hear someone's stocks are good though.

@AskTheDevil @koavf

“But the economy is mostly doing better for the people for whom it was already fine.”

This is, again, incorrect.

When someone has a job that they didn’t under Trump, that is a huge win.

3% inflation IS NOT GOOD.

If your employer is not giving you a COLA, you need to tell them you’ll walk. That USED to be part of the social contract.

It has ZERO to do with stocks.

@feloneouscat @koavf Employers don't have to give COLA that keeps up with COL, and they don't. They haven't for decades as a general rule.

So all the employees of those employers - and they are not outliers, they are the norm - are only missing out on the economy because of that?

No. It's a bit more than that.

@koavf If there's someone who isn't rich getting better off, I'm not seeing that. And if you need a magnifying lense and an economist to explain how it's actually better, it's just hard to see, then it's certainly not "better" enough to crow about, now is it?

We're already voting for Biden and against Trump. We don't need to pretend he's fixing the economy. He's not.

I worry if people keep pretending things are better, they won't try to make them better.

@AskTheDevil I try. If you have recommendations on what I can do, I am all ears.

@AskTheDevil @koavf

“And if you need a magnifying lense and an economist to explain how it's actually better, it's just hard to see, then it's certainly not "better" enough to crow about, now is it?”

It is better. You are just looking at your lot and saying that applies to everyone. We live on a (used to be fixed — thanks Biden) income.

Whether YOU see it, things are better. 7-8% inflation is healthy. 3% inflation is not.

There is no “pretending,” things are objectively better.

@feloneouscat @koavf But the prices being high hasn't been from inflation, it has been from price-gouging, and the prices are still high.

If prices were lower, our groceries would not be a higher percentage of my income every month. Our bills would not be going up while our ability to pay them does not keep up. Our rent would not be this high.

More people working at jobs that don't pay them a living wage, instead of not having jobs at all doesn't mean we're doing well.

It means we're beaten.

@AskTheDevil @koavf

The majority are doing better.

Whether you see it or not isn’t the point. Unemployment is at a low.

When people have jobs, things ARE better (having been unemployed before, I know which I will take).

@AskTheDevil @koavf

Do people feel it’s worse? Yes. But that is subjective, not objective.

If you don’t have a job, going from $0 income to $45K a year is objectively better.

I’ve been out of work before. If you’ve never been looking for a job for over a year, you don’t know how it blows through savings. I literally spent the last of our savings on a transmission when I got a job the same week.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/09/07/business/us-economy-biden-approval/index.html

@feloneouscat @koavf The economy is not doing well, except for the people on the top of it. If that were not true, we wouldn't need to have it explained to us, because our purchasing power and comfort level would go up.

@AskTheDevil @koavf

Again, this is objectively false.

“If that were not true, we wouldn't need to have it explained to us, because our purchasing power and comfort level would go up.”

When one goes from no job to having a job it really is amazing how much your purchasing power changed.

Objective proof frequently falls to the wayside when it disagrees with subjective feelings.

If it did not, there would have no Jan 6 insurrection.

As for wages, you need to talk to your employer.

@feloneouscat @koavf I am disabled and very old. I do not have an employer.

I suppose I could talk to the 100+ employers of everyone in my personal circle.

For the last 40 years.

It's not good. Pretending it's good won't help. If you're in the 53%, I'm glad for you.

Anyway, I don't wanna fight about it. Either of us could keel over any minute if we get too worked up.

If this is still a "me" problem by next year, I'll be in the newspapers as "worlds oldest" anyway.

; )

@AskTheDevil @feloneouscat What metrics do you use to measure the health of an economy?

@koavf @AskTheDevil

I have a couple: inflation, housing costs and investment in vehicles used for shipping.

For example when everyone was predicting a downturn for 2023 I noticed that 18 wheelers sales were up 20%. Shippers are not going to buy $100,000+ vehicles without a good indication things were improving.

Inflation was going up, but we have an entire generation that has become accustomed to 3% inflation which is barely ticking over (making a Great Recession easier).