@Agatha @th3j35t3r
Yes, definitely an algorithm.
But J needs solutions that scale using tech and not just more time from J.

It would report what was filtered if you want to see that.
If you don't like how it's working, then just don't use it.

Maybe there is an even better idea besides hiring an army of analysts?

@jurban @th3j35t3r

And that'll be up to him. But one of the main draws of CoSo - literally a staple - is no algorithms. There are many reasons why companies use them, or unpaid moderators like on Reddit (which is a whole other issue with pros and cons), but if that door is opened many of us who find this place a welcome refuge from typical SM will flee. And, no, that's not any kind of threat. I'm not telling him what to do. It'd simply be a consequence. But, it's his baby at the end of the day.

@Agatha @jurban @th3j35t3r
I will chime in only to say I would be very much against a sentiment or any kind of meter applied to a profile. Bouzy try that whole thing and it was wildly inconsistent.

I also firmly believe that we need to learn to talk to each other as humans, to be open-minded, and look past labels. Applying such a thing on profiles would go directly counter to that line of thinking.

Also as @jurban referenced generalizations:

While I didn't see the most recent part of this, I saw the beginnings of it and one group in this conversation clearly felt they were being unfairly gathered under some negative generalizations. So we definitely don't want anything that would further that, be it real or perceived.

@Agatha
@th3j35t3r

@jurban @Agatha @th3j35t3r

This isn't the first time we've had a significant Exodus of good people all because folks struggle to communicate with compassion and/or well intentioned discourse gets taken the wrong way.

@voltronic @jurban @Agatha @th3j35t3r yes 💯difficult to to discuss emotionally charged issues like these in the absence of non verbal communication - very easy to misinterpret things and hard to bring the temp down if things get jangly...these issues are difficult to talk about in most any forum.

@voltronic @jurban @th3j35t3r

If they are not part of the problem, then they don't need to basically go "not all white people", yes? Getting defensive when someone expresses there is a problem is literally part of the problem. Reminds me of when I suggested to my hus that he should refer to co-workers as "women" & not "girls" - esp when they're 20 yrs older than him. (He doesn't refer to the others as "boys".) He got *hostile* w/me thinking I was calling him sexist. But he calmed & grew.

@voltronic @jurban @th3j35t3r

But I also took issue with another actor who was overly hostile, and seemed to just want to stir up 💩. The result was they were basically yelling over, past, and around the original posters. So muting them both helped *me* - but my muting them didn't help the original posters.

@Agatha @voltronic @th3j35t3r
Sounds like we're trying to engineer good manners when communicating with our fellow humans.

That's a tough journey.

But, I do have ideas! 🙂

I do like the idea of being in control of tools that help you make sense out of what is happening. If an "algorithm" provides an indicator that this guy/gal is being a jerk and it confirms my opinion, I might feel less of a need to put him/her into their place with further arguments.

@Agatha @voltronic @th3j35t3r
...also...
An algorithm doesn't have to be out of your control.
It doesn't have to be nefarious.
It just has to be transparent.

If an algorithm enhances your understanding and you trust it, it's a useful tool.

@jurban
What you describe still makes me a bit uneasy. I would argue that by its very nature, an algorithm is not under your control unless you personally constructed it.

@Agatha @th3j35t3r

@voltronic @Agatha @th3j35t3r
What if you could turn it on and off yourself?

Ultimately, we're trying to enforce civility on CoSo.

Some people are just not civil and don't even realize it.

Maybe some gentle methods will course-correct those few that need some post-adolescent guidance?

@jurban @voltronic @th3j35t3r

Depending on algorithmic manipulations, however "gentle", to enforce civility vs us actively learning/re-learning how to use our voices and setting boundaries is a great way to avoid doing the hard work of taking responsibility for our own actions and reactions.

Literally SM has already taught us this.

If one can't learn self-moderation based on real reactions from real people, maybe this place isn't for them. There are other SMs for those who need to be handled.

@Agatha @voltronic @th3j35t3r
I don't think everyone in that category is able to see themselves as others do.
If they get an automated nudge, maybe they can course-correct themselves?

@jurban @voltronic @th3j35t3r

That's
what
our
words
are
for.

@voltronic @jurban @Agatha @th3j35t3r even then...

@Agatha @voltronic @th3j35t3r ...or...
Maybe there could be a simple "that was a mean thing to say" button?
It would progressively turn the font color closer to the background. Eventually, with a lot of clicks, it just fades away.....

@Agatha @voltronic @th3j35t3r
...but...
You can also turn it off or click a button to see what was said.

@jurban @voltronic @th3j35t3r

Sounds like a downvote. Boy that never got abused on YouTube, Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook.

@jurban @voltronic @th3j35t3r

I absolutely do not trust algorithms - and one on CoSo would be no exception. But I don't need one to confirm my bias or opinion or decision.

NOT having it has made me challenge my motives & reactions - I examine them - and that has been overwhelmingly positive.

But I'm also not trying to put anyone in their place. I left the other places for good reason. My opinion is that particular urge is a big reason why SM becomes crap. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Agatha @jurban @voltronic @th3j35t3r maybe a private downvote or upvote to help remember your own feelings about someone 6 mos down the line?

@hallmarc
Those things already exist. Following, muting, and blocking.

@Agatha @jurban @th3j35t3r

@voltronic @hallmarc @Agatha @jurban @th3j35t3r

and filters

@voltronic @hallmarc @jurban @th3j35t3r

This this this this this this. Why do people want to be handled so badly? Maybe they've gotten so accustomed to it that it seems "normal".

@voltronic @Agatha @jurban @th3j35t3r perhaps they're not fine grained enough. Maybe I straddle the fence on someone. They're interesting enough that I want to hear from them from time to time but "edgy" or "mean" enough that I want to mute them frequently. Just thinking out loud.

@hallmarc I use the block and mute features on occasion and then go back and reset them in a few days or a week

@voltronic @Agatha @jurban @th3j35t3r

@tgraph52 @hallmarc @voltronic @Agatha @th3j35t3r
I've muted someone that is quite popular here but rather pugnacious. I now miss his insights but don't want to open up that channel for all of his toots.

@hallmarc @voltronic @jurban @th3j35t3r

That's when I use the soft mute. I don't see their posts unless I go to their timeline, but if they @ me, I see them. If they piss me off from there, it goes to hard mute or block.

@Agatha
And that's plenty granular enough. We can only rely on tech to help us up to a certain point. I just posted a new thread about that.

@hallmarc @jurban @th3j35t3r

@voltronic @Agatha @hallmarc @th3j35t3r
I still like the idea of knowing if the community or an algorithm thinks someone is acting like a jerk before I engage them in a discussion.
And, I'd like to know if my toots are annoying people too much. Getting muted isn't obvious unless you search it out.

@jurban @voltronic @hallmarc @th3j35t3r

I mean, you can go to their profile and look through their comments.

@Agatha
Maybe it's just me, but I have never felt the need to announce that I'm muting or blocking somebody.

@jurban @hallmarc

@voltronic @Agatha Agree. No need to announce muting or blocking.

It's like making a big announcement that you're leaving a group or site or whatever. Just go.

@voltronic

Same. Seems like a high school thing to do. But, some do that then passive-aggressively post about it. To each their own, I guess. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@jurban @hallmarc

@Agatha @voltronic @jurban @th3j35t3r I didn't know there are two different mutes.

@hallmarc

When you mute, you can uncheck this and you'll still get notifications if they @ you. Super handy.

@Agatha @hallmarc
Fun observation, those few I've soft blocked never comment on anythinbg I post.

@Krysdammit @hallmarc

There's a couple who comment on my posts. I'm not naming names, but I'll soft mute people who keep posting puzzle scores & sports stuff without any hashtags I can use to filter them out (if they use one at all, it's hyper specific and I'm tired of adding them to my filters).

@Agatha @hallmarc
Those are the worst and what's filled up most of my filters.
I'd never name names either, I'm sure that I've been muted and blocked as well. I'm good with that. 😂

@Krysdammit @hallmarc

Oh jeez I HOPE I've been muted and blocked by several. 😂 😭

@Agatha @Krysdammit it's interesting. I have zero filters and I spend a lot of time just scrolling through the firehouse. Occasionally something strikes my fancy and I either click on the person's profile and go down a few posts to see if I'd like to follow or I comment. That's it!

@hallmarc @Agatha
I love the firehose, and that's how I've found most accounts to follow.
What's filtered are those pesky word game scores.
When it's a news event I don't care about and will never join a convo over (recent coronation in 🇬🇧 ) I filter for 1 week, then it goes poof.😂
Same goes for the Olympics.🤷‍♀️

@hallmarc @Krysdammit

That's fine if you don't need it. Everyone is different. I have ADHD (unmedicated, unfortunately), and I'm probably on the neurospicy spectrum. I have to minimize distractions as well as things that trigger over-stimulation (usually annoying crap) in order to maintain an even keel. Otherwise being online becomes just too much (I do the same thing IRL).

@Agatha @hallmarc TY didn't see that before Agatha👍

@UmbaSaffire @hallmarc

You're welcome! J posted it sometime back, so I had a vague memory of it.

@Agatha interesting. I guess I never saw that because I've never muted anyone!

@voltronic @Agatha @jurban @th3j35t3r perhaps there's an AI based way to better judge overall sentiment on the platform so that people stepping into the firehose can "figure the ratio and act accordingly." J can monitor that for a time in a pilot program and see how it's doing.

@hallmarc @voltronic @Agatha @th3j35t3r
This could be a corollary to a solution:
The "louder" you are tooting
the softer is your volume.

For instance:
If you turn this wiz-bang feature on, when someone's sentiment is going rogue their prominence in the thread is lowered.
You control the sensitivity.
If their response comes back with a button that says "Caution" and nothing else, you can click it to continue the engagement.
And, they know their post was hidden behind that button.