A moral society?
What is justice?
With the parole of Leslie Van Houten, the topic comes up. What is the purpose of incarceration, revenge and retribution, or removal from society, and rehabilitation?
Ask yourself some hard questions. Don't be shy about not knowing the answers. This is a very wicked problem. Yet I urge you not to react, on emotional instinct.
No one is asking for forgiveness of such a hideous crime. But ask instead at what point does incarceration reach diminishing returns.
@corlin I'm not really big on punishment. I'm more about rehabilitation of offenders, and restoration for victims. Punishment doesn't fix anything. It just makes people feel like something was "fair."
"You hurt me, so I hurt you back."
Incarceration, to me, should not be punishment. It should be there to remove dangers from society, and rehabilitate those we can.
Incarceration can provide deterrence without being cruel or endless.
@AskTheDevil
Yes.
Well said.
Thanks.
@corlin
Great question.
Maintaining societal safety/ order is stated intention of incarceration.
I don't believe certain rights of incarcerated should ever be compromised, such as right to safety.
Often hear people associate deserved punishment w how people are treated (ex: rape) in prison. Should enduring a life threatening environment be part of punishment or is punishment separation from society?
Think it's diminishing return when prison transforms an inmate into more dangerous person.
@UmbaSaffire @corlin This thread brought to mind a recent issue in Canada, which you might have heard about, in this case a minor change, not a release, but a move from a maximum security facility to a medium security one. I agree that certain people need to be separated from society; punishment might serve little purpose, if any.
"Families of Paul Bernardo's victims question serial killer's prison transfer"
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/serial-killer-paul-bernardo-transferred-1.6864480
@corlin
Convicted murderers who are still a danger to others belong in prison.
Those who disagree should think about whether you want them to move in next door to you, and if you would trust them with your children.
Understood.
The operative phrase is "danger to society".
But revenge punishment has no place in a moral society.
@corlin
A moral society is a utopian ideal I've never experienced in reality.
What percentage of moral people versus immoral people constitutes a moral society?
By definition, doesn't a moral society suggest 100%?
When is the threat of restrictions of freedoms as a possible punishment no longer useful as a deterrence from crimes?
All true.
But it has been shown over and over that incarceration is only a mild deterrent.
In today’s America has the highest recidivism rate of any western country.
@corlin Rehabilitation is a far better way !
@corlin I am on the side of grace here.