@poemblaze @robfwtx @MLClark I'm just happy to see people sharing what they believe. Believing in something can be a wonderful thing. I'm not of the Judeo-Christian faiths but there is much in common with early Christianity and Buddhism. A similar birth story too, interestingly. Mysticism from early parts of both faiths share much. I'm Theravadin (a tradition of Buddhism) which is one of oldest Buddhist traditions and pretty conservative (small C) and scripture based. xx
Thanks for sharing, Florence!
I'd caution against using the term "Judeo-Christian", which is upheld by a lot of nasty anti-Semitic Christians to erase the thriving existence of Judaism and its peoples. "Abrahamic faiths" covers Judaism, Christianity, and Islam in a much less dangerous manner.
Have you come across the discourse suggesting the figure behind Biblical Christ might have spent his missing years wandering and learning from Indian mystics, among others?
@poemblaze @MLClark @robfwtx Me neither. Sorry.
It's been around for 150 years or so, tied to Western fetishization of Indian mysticism when it first emerged.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/41348773
Again, I want to be clear that I don't think the Christ character in the Bible is anything more than a pastiche of street preacher anecdotes and other spiritual ideas added by the gospels' anonymous authors many decades on.
But I see zero reason there wouldn't have been more commingling of mystic thinkers / preachers in the era.
@MLClark @poemblaze @robfwtx Great. Thank you.
@MLClark @poemblaze @robfwtx Are you on ResearchGate? I'd be interested to read any of your academic stuff. I'm on there also. Thank you.
No, I left academia to live in Colombia, which has given me a very different and wonderful education.
What do you study and write on? I still love to read solid academic research, though my reading tends toward international political discourse and the sciences these days.
@MLClark @poemblaze @robfwtx Oh, if you're not on there. No worries.
@MLClark I understand where you are coming from, but there are even secular bible scholars who beleive Jesus existed and that Paul himself wrote some of the epistles attributed to him. Granted, they are not the gospels themselves, but they do give a good idea of the state of Christian belief at the time. @Florence @robfwtx
@poemblaze @MLClark @robfwtx I tend towards this viewpoint too Matt. Josephus, who is sometimes seen as a reliable source, mostly confirms this.
When I say that the Biblical character of Christ is a pastiche I mean that it's cobbled together anecdotes from various sources. (For instance, the anecdote against throwing stones - later addition.) One of those street preachers might have had enough shared life events to be considered the "core Christ" in the gospels, but clearly differentiating what that single person said or did from the mess of added commentary decades later is not a realistic task.
I'm guessing I've been blocked for the above? Ah well. One person's friendly conversation is another's personal attack or "lecture", but that *is* the joy of this place. We can choose whom or what we want to engage with, or not.
Matt! Have a terrific rest of your day. I don't doubt you do many wonderful things in the world with your faith, and that's all that matters. Cheers.
@MLClark Haven't blocked you at all.
@MLClark Obviously we disagree on some of these things. Although the the collective lifespan was not high at the time, there were still people who lived into old age. If one believes that there were actual disciples who held together, they would have shared the stories they remembered.
In comparison, my great uncle me stores about his grandfathers. I have no reason to believe they are not largely true even though they're about men who were born around 200 years ago. I'm not mad I just disagree.
@poemblaze Oh, you didn't block me, Matt! I think Florence did. And that's okay. Hope her day improves, too!
And of course we disagree. :) You wouldn't have your faith in a god if you didn't. But I do enjoy our chats and wish you all the best. Cheers!
@MLClark there was a lot of travel for commerce across those lands back then. the influence shows up in early Greek philosophy too.
@poemblaze @MLClark @robfwtx Sorry, for clarity, I haven't heard that. However, we see Jesus as an important figure. We have more of a link with the Hindu faith, indeed Hindu Deva pop up in Buddhist scripture quite a bit, usual to explain things.
@MLClark @poemblaze @robfwtx It's a common term used in Academia with no anti- Semitic overtones. But I am interested that you view it that way.
Not just me. I used to use it in academia, too, but stopped when it was pointed out to me that it now has very strong ties to US Christians with antisemitic aims. Jewish groups routinely advocate against its use, because it's become a clear dogwhistle for hateful politics.
@MLClark @poemblaze @robfwtx I'm quite happy with how I use it. But thank you.
@MLClark there's a story somewhere in the Avatamsaka sutra about a king's compassionate son who offers to take on the punishment that his irate father is about to inflict on the population for some wrong or other. it's been awhile since i read that😵💫. it struck me then how close the message is to the Christian. Jesus as bodhisattva.
@holon42 For me, I read the myth of Prometheus waaaaay too young not to think that his was a far more exemplary story of sacrifice. He creates a people, he loves his people dearly, he tries to protect his people against the fickleness and cruelty of the other gods, he steals fire for his people, and he allows himself to be cruelly punished by the other gods for it, that his creation may thrive.
Supremely badass mythmaking there.
But the other stories are neat, too!
@MLClark very good point! but he WAS a god, so he's got superpowers. like the elf in LOTR who gets hung by his wrist for eons on the outside of a stone tower for daring to counter Sauron/Melkor. or Sisyphus.
the ideal, at which human intention may aim, but never match in heroism. although Camus did challenge us to imagine Sisyphus happy.
@MLClark actually, that's the problem with making Jesus a god. it actually lessens the impact of his sacrifice.
@holon42 I have spent much of my life imagining Sisyphus happy. :) Glad to have a fellow traveler in the wackiness and wonder of all our broader mythologies.
@MLClark someone posted a youtube solution to that when i me it awhile back. the answer was that struggle gives meaning to life, so long as you continue to confront the task with imagination and determination, the task itself is meaningful.
@holon42 Well put, Holon42. And I sorely appreciate the smile your comment gave me. :) Hope you're having a good one!
@MLClark to you also🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻 the struggle is easier when shared with a smile.
@MLClark You didn't ask me, but I have heard that theory. @Florence @robfwtx