Every now and then life delivers a blow that momentarily breaks you. Horrible experiences are like amyloid plaque, they build up on you as you pass through this nutso life.
@MidnightRider Yes. Especially since reaching mid-life I sometimes feel a brutal despair—there so little we can do about the agonizing separations, the vulnerabilities…so many incomprehensible realities and unanswered questions. I find the world of my thoughts to be more real than the world around me. I’ll think: perhaps I’m crazy? But then I’m like: nobody notices…guess they are to? Then I let all that go and try to enjoy being alive. Very strange.
@WellWellWell3 @MidnightRider Yes it does. I live in Western NC and we are still recovering from Hurricane Helene. My family came through it relatively easily. We lost power and our frozen food but nothing more. Others lost everything. The damage is surreal.
But I don't feel the despair like you describe. I give those things over to God. I don't fully understand what happened and I ask the same why questions. We volunteered at our church to give out supplies. Helping others helps us.
@danielbsmith I mean I am so glad this method of operation works for you. The problem I have with it in my brain though Daniel? How do I give over to God what God allowed to happen in the first place? Is God ever culpable for being a poor steward of the ant farm that he built Daniel? He works in mysterious ways is a copout.
@MidnightRider What about all of the good things in life? Fine food, a first date, dancing, music, art. Who is responsible for them?
@danielbsmith I don’t think it’s an invisible man in the sky. I know you do and I acknowledge that, but I’m just not there with you, my man.
@MidnightRider @danielbsmith as a Christian I also wonder about evil , don’t think we Christians don’t ask those questions, why wars ? Why diseases? Why did God create a world in which humans would go to hell knowing they would rebel against Him ? Of course we ask them , but the reasons to believe there is a God are also powerful.
@Jorro @danielbsmith If God reported to me at work, he'd get a shit performance evaluation. I treated my adopted dog better than God treats the least of his children. Also, he allows his flock to be dominated by assholes.
@MidnightRider @danielbsmith I totally understand, evangelicals mainly are idiots ( I’m as evangelical, by the way ) and their behavior is insane, they are trolls .
@MidnightRider @Jorro Christianity teaches this life isn't our ultimate destiny. It's preparation and practice for another. That's why people like Trump are allowed to exist and influence us. They test us. So far, the church in America has mostly failed that test but this election will hopefully show some growth and recovery toward decency and actual biblical values. The rot is finally being addressed.
@danielbsmith @Jorro Who wants a " dress rehearsal" life? To me, when people say this, they minimize what this life is worth. It's always "free beer tomorrow". You know just in case all our learned platitudes are incorrect? I'd like to enjoy what's left of this life, I hope everyone does because it's a hard fight. The older you get the truer this becomes.
@MidnightRider @danielbsmith I agree in that , we can live a good life , we are blessed to live in this country .
@Jorro I’m not feeling “ that” best place ever shit like I did as a child. I am a big fan of the USA and being patriotic, but I’m confident that I would be far happier in Kingston Ontario. I just know now more than ever that I could never afford that.
@MidnightRider @Jorro I love Kingston, such a cool city!
@JeniRizio I love it there too, so easy to talk to people there.
@MidnightRider how did you get to immigrate, if you don't mind answering? Asking for a friend
@JeniRizio I’ve only been as a visitor but I used to go several times a summer for a decade.
@MidnightRider I understand. I went there in 2019. I've been to Ontario a bunch of times.
@MidnightRider @Jorro take me with you! #ILoveCanada
@MidnightRider @danielbsmith it is our responsibility to put Trump in jail , not God’s, we have to do something, God is not our servant, I understand your frustration, in The Atlantic article he called Mexicans “ Fucking Mexicans “, he insulted me and I felt so much anger that if I had him in front of me I would have kicked him in the balls but no , we are going to get rid of him in a more humiliating way , and forever, in two more weeks .
@Jorro God let his own son twist in the wind on a cross. But hey, he loves us. It’s all a bad fairytale to enslave people. If there is a God? God has a hands off policy for the science experiment he started or there is none, can’t see it any other way.
@MidnightRider Jesús did it willingly, He could have said no , but He didn’t.
@Jorro According to an ancient legend. There were more people than Jesus claiming to be the messiah in those days. A half human would have jumped off and kicked some ass. Then again I fully understand wanting to leave the Earth.
@MidnightRider one of the reasons He obeyed until the point of death was to show obedience, that is what we have to do , and believe or not democrats are doing just that in the elections ( I’m sorry I’m mixing religion and politics) have you seen how much the republicans are cheating ? Now Elon Musk is doing something illegal by bribing people to vote while democrats are sticking to the law , doing things right , you can be a Christian also in your behavior, not only if you go to church.
@Jorro Then by your post free will has an Asterix next to it. Why does God need obedient ass, kissing any of you guys ever ask your congregations that?
@MidnightRider of course people have asked that too , free will is in the beginning of the Bible for a reason , you obey willingly or you don’t, the devil chose not to , and many of us fail in that point too , it is not easy .
@Jorro Lucifer is a patsy, without the betrayal, the story never takes place. Besides, if God is all omnipotent, then why doesn’t he just kick Satan’s ass? Why does this have to be the Yin yang symbol ? That symbol is is getting lopsided anyway the evil side is winning.
@MidnightRider because of free will we must have a choice, without the devil there is no choice.
@Jorro With all due respect, what happened to the choices for women? I don’t see America’s religious right as a flexible group. No, instead, they don’t want you to have a Lucifer experience so they step in and change laws, so much for your choices. Also, God? you cranked out a batch of pinheads because that’s what we all are expected that that was all gonna work itself out? How many civilizations must come and go before God figures out that they don’t work?
Just popping in to say that it is super awesome to see CoSonauts having thoughtful, human-first chats across POVs. You all rock.
MR, you know that our religious friends here aren't going to give you an answer that satisfies, because they follow a god-concept that we know is as flawed as the humans who created it.
But look how much love these folks have shown here, in trying to sit with you in hard times! That's a beautiful thing, even if the background myth is flawed. 👌🏻
@MLClark @MidnightRider believe it or not I get along with atheists much better than with religious people, particularly the Trump supporters, atheists are much more respectful, try this on Facebook and the word “ idiot “ or “ ignorant “ will start flying.
I'm strongly of the opinion that atheist/theist "debates" of other eras distracted far too many of us from how much we share.
The way I see it, one's cosmology matters less than what one *does* with it - and I'm deeply thankful to know humanists of most every religious and secular background: people who share a belief that humans have to be agents of change on this planet, in this life, irrespective of what happens next.
🤗 So it's good to share a planet with you, Jorro!
@MLClark @Jorro @MidnightRider
Interesting discussion. Your comment, @MLClark, about what we *do* makes me think you'd be interested in Quakers who have 4 testimonies, all of which involve *doing.*
The testimonies are: Peace, Equality, Simplicity, Truth. Work for conditions that lead to Peace, everyone is Equal regardless of race, sex, $, etc., Simplicity (my favorite) - live simply so that others may simply live (great for the environmental crisis); and Truth, tell the truth.
@ShaneArtBooks @Jorro @MidnightRider
The Quakers are wonderful, and have a rigorous history of standing up against slave movements and other forms of oppression in the US.
I recently wrote about them in relation to a misused quote by Ben Franklin, though, and learned in the course of my research that there was a window in early Quaker history when they were *very much* a more disruptive lot - and encouraged to be so, to get their message out! The current image of a peaceful Quaker came later.
@MLClark @Jorro @MidnightRider
You are certainly correct in saying that early Friends (Quakers), especially George Fox, raised a ruckus. They were also active in the Underground Railroad (transport of slaves, then much later, transport of draftees out of the US during Vietnam) Friends often work behind the scenes & are not credited for different actions. Example, Friends were among the founders of Greenpeace. You'll find this article interesting.
https://www.greenpeace.org/international/story/48361/greenpeace-history-anniversary-founders-1971/
What a beautiful article, that brings many critical names and waves of the movement to the fore. Thanks for this, Shane! A wonderful, grounded history, with so many in-roads for us to build on in our praxis today.
@MLClark @MidnightRider oh!! You made my day !!! Thank you and I feel the same for you and everyone in this little corner of the net !!
@MLClark @Jorro @MidnightRider I’ve come to believe it’s more important to look at how one treats others than what one professes.
It took me two decades of church membership for me to reach that conclusion but I have met far more atheists that flow the teachings of Jesus than Christian’s.
@cjcrew 💯 on the actions over spoken words
@cjcrew @MLClark @MidnightRider me too !!!
@MidnightRider the answer to that question is that the church is wrong, at least the part of the church that wants to control women , that is what the evangelicals want to do , me and my wife ( she is way more religious than me ) are both pro choice, the Bible talks about individual responsibility, without free will there can’t be individual responsibility, basically they are a Christian Taliban .
@MidnightRider @Jorro I don’t think he does need it. I think that’s coming more from church leadership than from Jesus.
I should've saved the meme (didn't), that in ref. to Christianity wrote (with nearly a "Mel Gibson-esque" drawing):
Their favorite symbol is of a victim of torture appearing nailed up on an ancient torture device"
(Paraphrased)
@zenmudprod His only son as it is written. Trust me, I wouldn’t allow them to do that to my rescue dog never mind if it was my only son and if that was the only rescue plan for the earth? Why? Why didn’t God come up with a better plan or anticipate that his creation would go rogue. We know AI is going to do that. God should’ve been able to see that one coming.
@zenmudprod @MidnightRider that is also a symbol of obedience.
@Jorro @MidnightRider Hold on for 11 days more. Just 11 days. I believe we're going to see many evangelicals vote for Harris. Trump's hold over us has been broken.
@danielbsmith It was like tickets to the dead this morning voting. In trying to assess left and right? Total guess but one thing is for sure, people are pissed on both sides the participation is surprising. There were more people voting today than I have ever seen at any other vote in my life.
@danielbsmith @MidnightRider I believe that too !!
@danielbsmith @Jorro @MidnightRider I have never understood the evangelicals love for the rumpmeister. He is the exact opposite of what Christ asked us to be. He’s more antichrist than Christ-like.
@cjcrew The reason they love Trump is the same reason you don’t care if a really mean, bad spirited, mechanic fixes your car at a reasonable rate.
@MidnightRider I come from a family of mechanics, they’re all a bit mean and bad spirited but in their defense it’s because many of their clients are a lot like Trump.
And I’d buy that if Trump had any clue what he was doing in the first damn place but he doesn’t. Except for cheating and stealing and not paying his bills, the man is a stone cold idiot.
@cjcrew @danielbsmith @MidnightRider I’m having an argument about just that with a former facebook friend in the messenger ( because I left Facebook I just kept the messenger)
@Jorro @danielbsmith @MidnightRider I can think of only one passage that almost, sort of, not really supports that statement. “Be wise as serpent but gentle as lambs”. And I’m not even sure that’s from the Bible. I am severely lapsed.
@cjcrew Floatith like a butterfly but stingith like a bee. Muhammad
@cjcrew @danielbsmith @Jorro @MidnightRider they're generally not big on Christ. Rarely quote him and even more rarely, follow his teaching. Ask one about the beatitudes and see what happens
@killingfloorman @danielbsmith @Jorro @MidnightRider Do their heads explode? Please tell me their heads explode because I’ll start asking all of them.
@cjcrew @danielbsmith @Jorro @MidnightRider it's worth a try
@danielbsmith @Jorro @MidnightRider I hope you are right. I’m praying you are right.
I am absolutely with you on that. It is _our_ responsibility to deal with challenges (and shames) like Trump.
People act like "God" is some manager they can complain to, or principal they can tattle to. It is an evasion of responsibility.
Even if one _does_ believe in God (I do, in my way), I don't see how their presence absolves someone of responsibility for their choices.
Many people of faith get that. But a lot don't appear to.
@AskTheDevil @MidnightRider @danielbsmith we all believe in our own way .
@Jorro @danielbsmith God isn't lining balls over the centerfield wall either or Trump would be in prison. Every civilization there ever was has been a Tierney sponsored by shit humans, so yeah how bout that God?