@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice he was absolutely a terrorist. Not sure what his political affiliation has to do with it. All “MAGA fucks” aren’t terrorists with bad intentions. Some are good honest people who think it’s awful regardless of politics.

@BethJ @malice That is true, there are some people that are conservatives that I really like. I try REALLY hard to not be in an echo chamber and consider myself middle of the road, but I am disgusted by the lack of empathy of a lot of my neighbors.

@malice @BethJ I totally agree with BethJ too, the majority of my neighbors would be DISGUSTED with this and horrified. In that same sense though speculating about his beliefs doesn't mean I believe everyone who supports President Trump and the GOP is in fact a terrorist. I am just disturbed that they won't call a terrorist a terrorist. And BethJ just did call him one. Which he is! The question is why won't the news call him that and more importantly why is homeland security and local LE?

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice I find that it’s very hard for them to call someone a terrorist what obviously is. This guy is the definition of domestic terrorism. But we also can’t equate terrorism with a political party. Or at least we shouldn’t imo

@BethJ @malice You can go crazy trying to figure out crazy. My beef is less with actual political party than with religion. Unfortunately in this region they are tied together. The church here dictates how the families are to vote.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice I am very religious. So I don’t know. My family is half democrat and half republican. So we don’t fit that criteria.

@BethJ @malice @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine

My guess is that it is because they don't yet have evidence of motive

Quote:
Federal law defines domestic terrorism as [potentially lethal criminal] activities… that occur primarily in the United States, … are intended “to intimidate or coerce a civilian population,” “influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion,” or “affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping.”

https://lawfareblog.com/criminal-law-should-treat-domestic-terrorism-moral-equivalent-international-terrorism

@BethJ @malice It's really hard not to be horrified by some of the things they say and do. I understand that many of them have no life experiences and very small spheres of influence but they are so crazy.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice
ok, but we can say the same about extreme liberal groups that call for death of police or advocate for violence and looting and what not. I’d never generalize all liberals or conservatives or anyone like that.

@BethJ @malice Absolutely.

@BethJ @malice And that's the aim of the adversary to divide and sow chaos.

@BethJ I'm kinda speechless, but wanted to say I'm with Beth on this one. @malice @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine

@Katepillar @malice @BethJ Speechless about how horrified I am of my neighbors? Or how the assumption is out there that the perp is a Trump supporter. I am trying to bridge the gap.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ @malice Yes and yes. I'm sorry your neighbors suck, and this terrorist sucks. I really don't do well with generalities, and "this guy is horrible" and maybe he belives "this" so all those other people must be just as horrible as he is. Whatever his motivations were, he had this evil to do this inside himself. I don't see any MAGA ppl saying "go out an terrorize and kill people."

@Katepillar @malice @BethJ This is why the whole Cambridge Analytica thing bothers me... I was around when Norm Olson radicalized Timothy McVeigh. So this is a sore spot for me...

@BethJ @malice @Katepillar The whole Red Ice, Richard Spencer, NRA chick that sounds crazy thing hit a hot spot with me way back in spring of 2017.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @Katepillar @malice I hate Richard Spencer’s but I appreciate Dana Loesch. I don’t think it makes up who we are as people enough to be so hateful (not anyone here in particular, just in general). We are defining each other by our politics when a person is so much more than that. I support Trump even though he wasn’t my GOP choice. I support many of his policies. Doesn’t make me any better or worse than anyone else. Just my politics.. It’s kinda sad.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice @BethJ So this conversation has linked the bomber to the MAGA, Richard Spencer, and the NRA because they are all groups you have issues with. This is where I think the problem is. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend. This is simplifying it on my part, but when we group all the people we don't like together, it doesn't reflect reality.

@Katepillar @BethJ @malice That's true!

@Katepillar @malice @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine and white people. Don’t forget that.

@BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice Oh yeah, white people too.

@BethJ @malice @Katepillar ok but for real he was white. What's that got to do with it?

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice @BethJ I think that was her point.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ @Katepillar

Terrorism is literally defined by whether or not it's politically motivated. Also, it doesn't make any difference in any case. He's not any more or less of a terrorist now that he's a pile of meat then than he was 5 days ago. Though for the record, yeah, I think terrorism is fairly safe to assume. Same way I assumed it was probably a conservative, religious white kid (so far I seem to be batting 100).

Spare me the whataboutisms.

@malice @Katepillar @BethJ I am not disagreeing that was literally my first thought. In fact my kids and I have had IN DEPTH discussions about why WHITE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS BOYS who have the MOST potential to go to college are shooting up schools! We have been considering this every freaking which way in our minds. The most socially disenfranchised black kid in detroit who comes from a single parent home and probably plays more video games than my kids (and that's saying a LO

@malice @Katepillar @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine my only issue with what you said was the words “MAGA fuck” knowing there are people here who support Trump. I don’t think you hate us all but just the words alone we’re not necessary. Can you imagine if I said “Liberal Fuck or Left wing Fuck” here? I wouldn’t cuz I have way too much respect for everyone here.

@BethJ @Katepillar @malice That's also true but honestly I hear that in real life so often that it has no impact anymore. Sadly. So when, I don't think I said it I just starred another comment heard it, had no impact. Sadly.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice @BethJ This is what you were talking about bridging the gap. We have to try to recognize when we do what we hate, all of us. It's why I bite my tongue, a lot.

@Katepillar @BethJ @malice I try, I do. It was totally the kid in Sacramento this morning that set me off. Someone called the police about someone breaking windows of cars, the police came and started questioning a young man in his own back yard. . That's what we have come to....http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article205818424.html

@malice @Katepillar @BethJ 2 Saying a LOT and has more access to firearms is NOT shooting up their school. We have theories but most people would be seriously offended. Just like the cops have stereo types of black kids being trouble makers and don't even try here. We have assumptions about rich white boys feeling entitled and taking it out on everyone else when they don't get their dream job/girl/ whatever. And that doesn't mean all of them but yeah, assumptions are made.

@malice @Katepillar @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine I said it was terrorism. So?

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine I have been following this thread with interest. An observation on my own MAGA family members. They grew more angry, bitter, and rigid as they were led to more information on their social media feeds. I believe that the manipulation of fears and outrage by CA has tipped good people to feel justified. It was reinforced. For some who were violent or truly unstable already, I believe this effect contributed to their willingness to act out now. @BethJ @malice @Katepillar

@Jules @Katepillar @malice @BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine is it just me or does this SM manipulation by CA scare the livin shit out of you?

@kpcc6s @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ @malice @Katepillar It's not just you. It had very real effects that are being undervalued.

@Jules @Katepillar @malice @BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine 😔

@kpcc6s @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ @malice @Jules Not having facebook, I've seen from a distance how it controls people's lives, and how likes or commas or any miniscule little thing can lead to a battle, and it's not shocking to me at all that people have been led.

@Katepillar @Jules @malice @BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine I gave it up shortly after the election with the exception of cute animal videos. Because I was so abhorred by politics prior to the election I didn't look at any of that stuff on Facebook. I'm of the opinion that by deleting your Facebook account now, it is too little too late.

@Jules @Katepillar @malice @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine my only issue is this: who is calling who a “fuck”? I’m over here saying we are more than our politics and yet it’s angry MAGA people? It may be so in your family, however, in mine the trump haters are constantly raging about him. So it goes both ways. I think it’s all the above. We have an anger issue with all politics.

@BethJ @malice @Katepillar @Jules That's for real true. It has divided us all.

@BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice @Jules I hate some family members who I agree with politically and love ones I disagree with. lol

@BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice @Katepillar I agree the manipulation has occurred to both left and right. I do not feel name calling is warranted in any discussion. I have spent equal time calming my left and right friends. The key point here is that SM targeted peoples fears, reinforced them, inflamed them, and then made it impossible to calmly rebut arguments by using bots whose purpose was "whataboutism" or "fu" responses. This carries over into real life. We all must do better.

@Jules @Katepillar @malice @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine I agree.

@Jules @Katepillar @malice @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ very true. Glad someone is talking on the subject. Blame is on both sides. To recognize and accept is where it begins

@BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @malice @Katepillar @Jules

Beth, you are staying on point, well done. This wasn't about the bomber being a MAGA supporter.

This thread shows clearly what the CamAnalytica said (parapharased), facts don't matter - elections are won on emotion. We all need to stick to the facts. Democracy is not about emotion - it is a system of government.

@Anemone @Jules @Katepillar @malice @BethJ I agree with you up to the point about religion. Religion and the separation of religion vs. state in the constitution seems to have been forgotten in my state and recently in the federal government.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine
I never discuss religion and politics in the same conversation. The thread was about the bomber being identified as a MAGA supporter.

@BethJ @malice @Katepillar @Jules

@Anemone @Jules @Katepillar @malice @BethJ While I completely understand in this particular time and place they are not easily separated.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ @malice @Katepillar @Jules

Yes they are. Try it.

@Anemone @Jules @Katepillar @malice @BethJ Ok. And I have to extrapolize to my state. Explain why the GOP in my state spent millions to go to the Supreme Court of the US to ban same sex marriage. When the people advocating for it were belonging to churches that recognize it. Give me one valid reason that is not religious why two consenting adults can not be joined in marriage and realize the full benefits of that arrangement from the state, adoption, estate, will, heirs, custody rights.

@Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ @malice @Jules @Anemone Now we got the GOP, all the gay people and some religions.

I love Jesus. I think gay people should be allowed to marry.

I'm bowing out.

@Katepillar @Anemone @Jules @malice @BethJ I respect you so much!! : )

@Katepillar @Jules @malice @BethJ @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine
Yes, take me off this thread too. This thread went off the rails.

@Anemone @Klaatu_Veratta_Nectarine @BethJ @Jules @Katepillar

I've muted half the people on this thread already but jfc remove me from further replies. Your asspain is palpable.