@AskTheDevil @divisionbyzero I had a class in college that required weekly two-page papers, and the professors would return any additional pages detached and unread. I learned to be very concise.

@Notokay @divisionbyzero I've found telling people what is expected of them saves time, in both educational and workplace environments.

I like to think it also teaches people that bosses and coworkers who expect them to read minds rather than become good communicators or effective leaders, deserve pushback.

If you want to teach them to acquire specifications/requirements, teach that. Teach what questions to ask when instruction is vague or incomplete.

Be direct. Saves time and rancor.

@Notokay @AskTheDevil I just know if my boss asked for 2-3 pages on a topic and I gave him 7, he'd tell me I didn't read the instructions and I'd better find a way to trim it to 3 pages and resubmit it with all due haste.

@divisionbyzero @Notokay If my boss did that, we would have a closed-door meeting where I asked him to give specs before I do the work in the future, and where we learn how to communicate better.

Bosses who do that are bad communicators who cause wasted effort. They may also be assholes.

And if the closed-door meeting doen't work, it will come up in a meeting in front of everyone.

@divisionbyzero @Notokay Not communicating what you need, then making it the problem of the person who already did the work is an asshole move, not a slick one. It wastes time and damages morale.

@divisionbyzero @Notokay To begin with, the only time I've ever had a requirement for a specific number of pages is when it is for ad copy or a space-limited article.

Typically, people will be asked for a complete report on whatever subject, with supporting information.

It depends on the business needs and what you are working on, but being explicit and direct always saves time.

If you want something specific, you say that, and make sure it's understood.

But people don't.

...

@divisionbyzero @Notokay I learned early on to pry certain information out of the uncommunicative. To ask certain questions - when, how much, what goals, where it goes, who it's for - all the things passive-aggressive, distracted, poor communicators like to leave out and then go "gotcha".

Helping people learn when/what to ask for clarification is better than setting up gotchas.

@divisionbyzero @Notokay When people teach via trick questions and such, your students end up in _my_ workplace.

The people who accept bad communication, and accept fault for other people's bad communication and just accept that "there are gotchas from your boss and they're your problem, so learn to mind-read".

If you train your students to put up with crap, I have to teach them to ask questions, while I'm trying to work.

Glad I'm retired.

@divisionbyzero @Notokay Do understand also that young people are also likely to have heard that hustle matters, that going above and beyond and delivering more than asked is the new baseline. That if you are asked for something, you show you are a winner by exceeding expectations.

And the boss doesn't usually have to trim that 10 page 2-page report. Someone like me and other staff usually do.

@AskTheDevil @Notokay We usually work with page restrictions in my line of work. When they say a 1-page cheat sheet they definitely mean a 1-page document, not a sentence more. When they say 30 seconds of copy, they're not asking for 45. While we do have some things in the category of "just cover the topic well" most have constraints.

@divisionbyzero @Notokay I think the disconnect is that I typically have encountered the boss that says "give me a report on" and leaves out the "this many pages" part. When I have that boss, I know to pry more, but not everyone did. Above and beyond, they'd go!

My bad boss/coworker situations do not make your _different_ interactions into bad ones.

Most of my headache came from people not communicating effectively, then shifting blame, that's where my bias comes from.

@AskTheDevil @divisionbyzero Having said all that, once I was teaching, if I found a student enthusiastic enough about a subject to do three times as much work as required, I certainly would not punish them!

@Notokay @divisionbyzero I think when there is an expectation set, that's different from just going "no, you did it wrong!"

: )