Bilingual thought.
I have a habit of slipping into the formal form with my dear friends, as a mark of love, because Usted vs. Tú has tonal range, and can often go full circle to intimate respect.
It's something I haven't quite fixed in 6 years (though I'll always catch myself and go back to Tú), but I think it happens because my native-English brain *loves* this range of respect/adoration we don't have in our own simple "you".
...But we DID once, with thou vs. you!
Should we bring it back? 🤔
(All the Francophones are obviously on board. 😉 This might also be why I slip up so often in Spanish; with French family on visits it was always vous form!)
The problem with returning to our old division in English is that we've completely swapped the meanings in colloquial usage.
"You" was once used to refer to someone of higher class standing, or for general respect.
"Thou" was then used for someone lesser, or in more familiar contexts.
But because "Thou" fell out of common use, average people now think it's fancy, and thus only to be used in formal contexts.
A few more everyday "thou knave!"s and "thou cur!"s should set us right, though! 😁
I read that in the voice of Ripley and I was not disappointed. :)
This is all accurate, but the story is a little more intricate.
At first "thou" and "ye" (ye was the subject pronoun, you the object) were simply singular and plural.
Later on, "you" became a polite or formal way of addressing someone, and expanded into many situations where "thou" would have been normal. "Thou" was, however, left for a number of occasions where the formality of "you" was inappropriate:
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1) Addressing intimates (spouses, lovers, childrens, close friends or relatives);
2) People noticeably lower on the social scale than you;
3) People who were your equals, but whom you deliberately wanted to insult;
4) Addressing God.
Over time, the first three options died out and the last was reserved for formal prayer. Quakers, however, revived the use of "thee" (originally the object case of thou, but used by them in all cases) to show that they didn't privilege any human being.
Of course the story is more intricate than a single post with playful intent, focused on the challenges of contemporary use as an extension of my preceding reflection about the semiotic challenges of bilingual life, is ever going to convey.
Lit history scholar to lit history scholar, though, I appreciate that my comment brought out an interest in sharing.
There are devilishly few good opportunities to go off on a tear about esoteric historical affairs, after all!
I hope it didn't feel that I was trying to belittle you or question your knowledge! I was hoping just to expand a little on a subject in which I am interested.
Very often I mistakenly assume people are as interested as I am in some recondite issue. But just as often, if not more so, I mistakenly assume people are *not* interested in something when they really might be! I end up badly overcorrecting in both directions. :/
It's hard to segue into a "Yes, and" at times, eh? I think everyone with deep academic training struggles with this. I used to bore the HECK out of people with long analyses of ancient texts on FB.
I admit, I was a touch amused here because I'd already mentioned reading a 13th-C poem today, & image-quoted from 15th-C Caxton on Thursday.
But I know it wasn't presumed ignorance. :)
We nerds are just an awkward bunch, always looking for an "in" to sing the praises of our subfields!
@MLClark Very common in many languages, as I'm sure you know. Russian is the same. Tы 2nd person singular is also considered familiar, while вы 2nd person plural is also more formal for the singular; using ты with a stranger would be considered condescending and demeaning.
@MLClark Thou bitch.