Let me relate one story about living in the south. A long time neighbor, who attends the largest baptist church near me, called me to recruit my help. It was a normal neighborly call and I thought it was about a chicken-que. But it turned out to be a rallying call to get everyone she could to go to a meeting and root out what she called "the gay liberals" who wanted to volunteer at the local fire department.
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I gasped something like "we can't do that!" She laughed and said why not? This is what she and other members of this church believe. Book bans, anti critical race theory. etc. etc. Their pastor gives political endorsements from pulpit. They hold three services every sunday and its a huge congregation. Its typical here. I hope it isn't other places
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@CinnamonGirlE I'm sorry to say it is. Most of my family are alt right catholics. Their priest has told the congregation, multiple times; if you support Biden; you're not to receive holy communion. I nearly fell off my chair; when I heard this. We need to be taxing churches.
Sure.
And when we do, we'll need to ALSO tax the ACLU, and the Metropolitan Opera, and the Red Cross, and the Long Time Foundation, and the American Museum of Natural History, because they're ALL "non-profit organizations" and laws aimed at the practice of religion are unconstitutional.
@mcfate @CinnamonGirlE I think any "non profit" that is as blatantly political as many of these churches are, need to be taxed. Separation of church and state should actually mean just that.
I don't mind atheism per se, but if you're going to promote it, you need to at least be RATIONAL about it, right?
@mcfate @CinnamonGirlE I'm not an atheist. I do not believe that churches should be allowed to flagrantly flaunt the law about political involvement. But many are. Those that do should have their non profit status taken away. Nothing irrational about that. I never mentioned any other non profits because I never heard that they're taking a polical stance.
You said you wanted to "tax the churches", without any qualification at all. That's what I'm taking issue with.
Taking away their non-profit status would result in scofflaw churches being obliged to pay taxes. Just THEM. Not "the churches".
And β as I said β churches AREN'T allowed to "flagrantly flaunt the law".
Go ahead and REPORT them.
If you're thinking of heading toward telling me that the IRS won't do anything if you DO, why would you expect them to do something under some OTHER set of circumstances?
@mcfate @CinnamonGirlE I did report them. Multiple times. Honestly; many churches are multi billion dollar businesses. Hiding under the cloak of a church. Those "churches" should be taxed. Including the Catholic church. No one is coming after you. I have felt this way for many years. Not just since the current political upheaval.
Ell oh ell, you think I'm a church?
Well, keep reporting 'em. Asking for ridiculous over-reaches that would hurt not only EVERY church but every non-profit β and that is where you started this, and what I took issue with β gets you involved in discussions like this.
I mean, feel free to picket the IRS, but let's recall that the GOP keeps stripping their funding and there are plenty of actual billionaires avoiding being taxed.
Maybe you'd be better off trying to get more Democrats into Congress. That, at least, hold some chance for success. "Tax the churches" is never going anywhere.
I'm also not aware of the Catholic Church backing specific candidates or parties. What are you singling THEM out for?
If they're the ones you're "reporting", I'm not surprised you get nowhere with this crusade you're on.
While we're here, I'd very much like to see the data about these "many" multibillion-dollar-business churches.
Only because I feel as though you made that up for effect.
And just so we're completely clear here, non-profit organization are not barred from being "businesses", not even "multi-billion dollar" ones. They just don't return a profit to anyone but the organization itself. No one has a "beneficial ownership".
The ACLU is a business. The Metropolitan Opera is a business. The Hayden Planetarium is a business. The Girl Scouts are a business.
And you can't tax a "business" because it's a religious one, that's unconstitutional.
@mcfate @CinnamonGirlE I didn't make that up for effect. Churches are big business. I question any church that has that much money yet this country still has a huge poverty and homeless problem. Where's the money going? I'm not here to debate you. I have my opinions about churches. And I never said tax all non profits. You keep comparing museums and such. I'm not talking about them. Net worth of some churches; just for reference
https://briefly.co.za/facts-lifehacks/top/151378-richest-church-world-ranked-top-list/
Okay, which part of "every non-profit organization is a business, and they're allowed to make billions as long as no individual realizes a direct financial benefit" is continuing to baffle and perplex you?
You're DEFINITELY "not here to debate me", you'd need to have a concrete POINT you were defending and you do NOT.
All you've got is "CHURCHES MAKE ME MAD, AND SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO HAVE BANK ACCOUNTS!" here, in essence.
You're railing at the CATHEDRAL OF NOTRE DAME for charging admission from tourists and selling them tchotchkes, pal.
Maybe you think the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre should be shut down, too.
You think that makes sense, do you? Yikes.
It's hilarious that you needed to go as far as SOUTH AFRICA to come up with this COMPLETELY UNSOURCED "data".
Quit while you're behind. Find a better hobby than yelling at historical buildings. You can be angry, don't be SILLY.
@mcfate @CinnamonGirlE My sisters priest clearly said: Vote republican. If you support Biden; don't receive communion. You need to get right with Jesus if your voting for democrats. From the pulpit. Like I said; I nearly fell over. My family agree that as "christians" it's their job to try to get people to vote appropriately. I grew up catholic, I know first hand the evil that goes on within that church and the leaders that turn a blind eye. I'm done discussing this. Peace
Well, report 'em, that's a violation of the law.
You should have been done before you started, you have yet to make any sort of a sensible point.
Long/short, your "sister's priest" made you mad, so you want to shut down his church, and if that means shutting down the Museum of Modern Art, the Statue of Liberty, and the Mayo Clinic, too, well, them's the breaks.
It's worth it to you, that's how mad this guy makes you.
Get a freaking grip.
@mcfate @CinnamonGirlE Why do you keep bringing up random non profits? I clearly said I'm not talking about them. When did the MoMA tell anyone; you can only come here if you vote a certain way? I'm talking about churches that are trying to influence the election process. You don't like my opinion? Please block me. And these churches have the $$ to sway votes. Like taking away women's rights. It isn't one priest who made me mad. It's the institution. I'm out.
I keep bringing them up because you are continuing to be unable to grasp that you ARE, in fact, talking about them.
As I've set out in some significant detail. Scroll up, reread what I wrote. Move your lips if it'll help.
A church is no different than any other non-profit, outside of your being aggrieved with it, simply for being a church.
In any case, I don't take orders from you.
If I block you, it'll be because you've stopped amusing me.
@DCliffo @CinnamonGirlE
If a church is endorsing specific candidates or campaigning on behalf of a party, report them to the IRS, because that's a violation of their NONPROFIT STATUS, and can result in their LOSING it.
"Tax the churches" is a preposterous, untenable, basically silly position, for the reasons I've pointed out.
It's like, "Someone I know choked on a grape pit one time, let's make grapes illegal."