I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I think all of my democratically-minded friends who think that voting alone can save this country from the hostile fascist takeover attempt we're still facing, are tragically mistaken. When our opponents no longer play by the rules at all (let alone the law), I think far more radical actions will be required. Not saying I know what it will take, but who's with me on this?
@Thumprhare I agree, many are in denial. But we'll need a hell of a lot more people to wake up, if we're to avoid the loss of our democracy. It seems to me we're a lot closer to losing it than many people think.
People who don't buy your thesis aren't "in denial".
This stuff won't work here because it never actually HAS worked here. Voter suppression measures are pretty shitty at suppressing voting.
Gerrymanders are getting tossed out by the courts left and right.
The courts still exist, they MAKE people "play by the rules".
@mcfate @Thumprhare @sufisamwise We're just not there... Yet. Trump laid a lot of groundwork for it though. A scary amount of court appointments and other moves to try and neuter the systems that keep them in check.
*shrug* I'm hoping Texas flips and we can watch Democrats flounder uselessly for a decade straight.
@sufisamwise I don’t they know you are jumping the shark with your line of reasoning. The issue, is voting is our greatest peaceful hope…
What the farthest right & left have in common is a thirst for upheaval.
I've survived anarchy. Civil wars have costs unimaginable, are usually much longer than imagined, & are MUCH less controllable than imaginable.
@dz I'm not worried about "the farthest left" at this time. I don't think they're the real danger to the Republic right now. As for civil wars, that's a real concern and unfortunately, I think it's now inevitable that there will be another civil war here in the US. But it's the far right that's pushing that. They've actually said many times, they're preparing for a civil war, because they want one.
@sufisamwise
You do not say what your means might be in the posts captured below. But it seems fair to infer those means are not imagined to be
"democraticly minded" votes or "legal challenges", but other "radical actions" "not by the rules".
Yet you express the concern for "loss of our democracy". So - want to get a bit less vague, or to clarify what you think is in bounds & out of bounds, in tactics or goals.
I take your thoughts & words seriously.
@sufisamwise @Thumprhare @serenity @Lindalemondrop
I will delete the screen captures in post if requested by certain people, if it is felt it does not facilitate communication, especially if posts modified.
The intent of my post was & is to seek better communication, on a topic of deep significance to several (at least).
While I (too) have a right to have & express opinions, I am not seeking ugliness.
@CoSoTips @ phase
@sufisamwise the aspect of overturning their voters as we see in the GOP war on democracy in states where the party in power can vote not to certify votes if their candidates lose is what concerns me. The GOP can simply choose their candidate at the end of the day. I’m far from an expert but wouldn’t legal challenges be time consuming?
@Lindalemondrop I was listening to podcasts at work today, talking about this. It's a very real concern, but not entirely surprising given the fascist coup they're still trying to pull off. Not sure about legal challenges at this point, as it seems if the GOP is able to simply run out the clock until they're able to take control again, legal challenges won't mean much then. My point is that dems always try to be polite and play by the rules, and the fascists simply weaponize that against us.
@Lindalemondrop yes, and their latest plot to create "alternate" (FAKE) electors, which is entirely illegal.
@sufisamwise many people recognize it, the rest are in denial