@Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou @AskTheDevil They need to go the way of the Federalists, the Whigs, every failed political party.

Democrats probably need to split into formal recognition of the internal factions. Maybe the leftover Pubs can join with moderate Dems?

We need more than two viable parties, but until our elections themselves change so third parties are more than just spoilers, we are doomed to the duopoly.

@S_r_stone Yeah. It's all a sticky wicket. Politics has never had a good reputation and personally I can't think of anything that would be a viable replacement. The best we can hope for right now is that they all find a balance and maybe start putting country above party. That goes for here in Canada too, where we have 3 viable parties and several other far L or R policy. @LnzyHou @AskTheDevil

@S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou I think the proper number of political parties is zero.

They do not exist to provide collective action, they exist to absorb power for the party's ends.

@AskTheDevil I wholeheartedly agree. I just can't see how to make it work. I've thought of different scenarios but they all come with their pitfalls. @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

@Tacitus_Kilgore @S_r_stone @LnzyHou
I htink humans better get better in a hurry about making collective decisions for common good.

Giving over power to others isn't the way. Sharing it and being responsible for it will.

@AskTheDevil @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou Zero political parties is a fantasy unfortunately. People are going to collect with common interests for bargaining power naturally. You can't outlaw them.

Many parties is as close as anyone has ever come, around different issues. Then the parties negotiate to form a governing coalition. Even that would require our electoral process to change.

We COULD outlaw party primaries maybe? Let everyone vote on all options with RCV.

@S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou The fact that we have done the same stupid thing that works bad for a long time is not a reason to keep doing it.

There is no law of the universe, like gravity, that says we have to have them. There's not even any human trait that requires them in their form, which we know, as they did not used to exist, and there were still people.

"It's hard" is not a reason to leave something broken.

@AskTheDevil That's what I find the most frustrating. Even those who truly want change are usually the first ones to say, "but it will never happen.". @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

@Tacitus_Kilgore @AskTheDevil @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

Luce (and others!), have you read Simone Weil's Human Personality? I think you'd greatly enjoy it. She wrote it in 1942, in France, and in it describes the party system of her country as not so far removed from fascism of the Third Reich. An extraordinary thing to say in WWII, but she was speaking to what you're all discussing: the way party politics flatten the individual to simplistic ideas of personhood that often trample over *the human*.

@MLClark Oh no! Another book for me to consume. I don't think I have the time left to get to them all.🤪🤣@AskTheDevil @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

@Tacitus_Kilgore @Tacitus_Kilgore @AskTheDevil @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

It's not a full book! Just an essay!

I'm linking it below in English and the original French, if anyone would like to take a stab at either.

"Human Personality"
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Bv_6QaGVlujkH3YZFRYhyJdyhGtlpd1S/view?usp=drive_link

La Personne et le Sacre
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D9vVnwFHA1XZxIYNkwP4XiANsTVZyxUT/view

@MLClark Ooooh. Thank you. I will read it after I finish watching our election coverage. @AskTheDevil @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

@MLClark @Tacitus_Kilgore @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

I've got it bookmarked for when I've got brains in the morning.

I've seen enough to know I'll read the rest. : )

@MLClark @Tacitus_Kilgore @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

I don't think I can just read that and go "Yeah! I think so too!", so I'll have to sit with this a little.

But that would be the TLDR.

@MLClark

I can definitely see why you suggested this!

@Tacitus_Kilgore @S_r_stone @LnzyHou

@MLClark @Tacitus_Kilgore @S_r_stone @LnzyHou I read a little tonight, and realized, I want to read it with my whole mind. Thank you for thinking of me!
: )

@Tacitus_Kilgore @AskTheDevil @S_r_stone

That level of cynicism appears on CoSo as well. Very disappointing. What we think, we create.

Too many folks don’t get it.

@LnzyHou Oh I am so with you on that.💙 @AskTheDevil @S_r_stone

@AskTheDevil @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou I am on board. What's your plan? How do we get there? Would there be a law?

It isn't just " That's how it had always been." It is more pragmatic of gaming it out. People have rights to assemble with common cause. Do we take it away?

The perfect is the enemy of the good. We can achieve a more representative model of our population.

@S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou You can have the ability to assemble with common cause without having anything that resembles the monsters our parties have been.

Ask, what purpose does the party serve? Collective action? How can people gather collectively without doing the negative things parties do?

Identify which pitfalls existed in the party system, what were the fundamental weaknesses that were exploitable.
...

@S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou

There's steps. It's complicated. But something not being simple or easy doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

@S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou

Perhaps I was unclear: I was saying "We should get rid of parties" not "here is a detailed plan of every step of the way, including my lengthy treatise on what I would put in their place."

500 chars. Also, I'm not dictator of the planet, so I feel like I should include others in such plans. ; )

My point is that they're harmful and should be got rid of. Unqualified.

Not "it will be easy," or "there are no obstacles".

We can overcome obstacles.

@S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou

Things start with fantasy. First you think of it, you dream it, then you figure out how to do it, then you do it.

That's how it's supposed to work! : )

@AskTheDevil @S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore

Starting point for me:

Money is the root of all evil. Remove the ability to buy candidates. Significant campaign finance reduction.

@LnzyHou @S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore Yep. No more buying candidates.

@S_r_stone @AskTheDevil @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou re: closed primaries, I have wanted for some time to argue that closed primaries are a violation of my rights as a citizen. Why is my tax dollar going to pay for some private party determination of their candidate if I don't have a say in it? They can take this offline or pay for it themselves or open it to everyone.

@CarmenSlamdiego @S_r_stone @Tacitus_Kilgore @LnzyHou

Thank you!