@FernLovebond @jasod Yep! #CoSoPagans is basically anyone not in a specific domination of Christianity really. Even got a few Buddhists among us. ^^

@PaganMother @jasod

Mm, Buddhism comes in a lot of forms, and in the West/Global North it's become deeply secularized. I still use Buddhist practices for my meditation, & live largely by the layperson's vows.

IDK how much I'd include "non-Christian" of w/e kind within Pagan: there's all the Judaic faiths, the Islamic variants, then Hinduism & its offspring (Buddhism, Jainism, Hare Krishna, et al), Zoroastrians, Baha'i, Scientology, & similar nonsense. [Neo]Pagan for me is far more specific.

@FernLovebond @jasod Yeah, but we have had a pretty peaceful coexistence here.

@FernLovebond
Just for fun, I looked up the etymology of the word Pagan and it just means "of the countryside" or "rural" as does heathen (lit. of the heath lands).
Never knew that till just now!
So in my imagination that means in a religious sense that it's the way of the rural people. I like that. 😁
Especially when you consider how many old rural traditions have been retained in European (and especially British) Christianity.

@PaganMother @jasod

@stueytheround @FernLovebond @jasod It really is one of the more fascinating examples of how the languages we use shift over the years too. ^^

@PaganMother @stueytheround @FernLovebond

@jasod when I saw this thread, I thought of Wassailing as a possible ritual starting point.
However I am off to work so will see where this thread goes by the time I am home again

@Mauve_matelot @PaganMother @stueytheround @jasod

To get back to the OP's question (sorry), I often begin my interest in a celebration by looking at Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

Ppl often balk at this, but the truth is Wikipedia has been repeatedly studied by academics who find that–on the whole–Wikipedia is as reliable as a trusted Encyclopedia. It's a very useful source because it stresses sources, which means readers can validate the origins of the data for its merit.

Start there.

@Mauve_matelot @PaganMother @stueytheround @jasod

Additionally, consider If your group is predominantly of Germanic, Scandinavian, or some other ethnic origin, and if that matters. I've found most ppl in the neopagan community are a mix of syncretic & total-bullshit, so if you don't know, just try to be syncretic, as this often pleases participants just fine.

A theme of family is generally the primary focus of winter celebrations, & it was often when we are stuck w/ them the longest.

@Mauve_matelot @PaganMother @stueytheround @jasod

Lastly, I always like to include a perspective of the planetary astronomy of the time, a reminder of how small & precious our little ball is, how essential that fine balance is that gives us our seasons, our hours of light, our cycles of crops & water, because of where we are along the 584 million miles of our journey around that star we call sun.

A guided meditation on our place in that vastness is very good in the opening of these holidays.

@stueytheround
Re: retaining pagan traditions in Christianity:
It's actually a great lament to me that Christianity assimilated traditions, altered them to fit the aesthetic of their age. The assimilation which spread the church was often brutal in suppression of native ways, insisting locals obey missionary edicts, reinforced by the local leadership, about celebration of their indigenous traditions.

How much more would we know if they'd simply been allowed to go on?

@PaganMother @jasod

@FernLovebond
I feel it worth acknowledging that there were two fronts in the "conversion" of British pagans.
The Romans who as you rightly pointed out, subjugated Pagans came to our Eastern shores and spread North, mostly. They arrived in 55BCE and didn't convert until Constantine.
But there is an older way.

Those we call The Celts, converted much earlier through interactions with mediterranean traders in the British South West.

THEY retained more Pagan tradition. 1/2
@PaganMother @jasod

Such folk gladly received the Gospel because it was offered gently and with great respect. They recognised much of their religion in Jesus and were not subjugated, but chose to redirect their traditional practices. Especially with regard to prayer. To this day, those of us who follow a Celtic Christian model still do.

For instance:
I have hearth prayers, kitchen, bedroom and doorway prayers.
I pray the Caim (an encircling prayer).
I venerate nature.
(Ok 2/3)

@FernLovebond @PaganMother @jasod

Eh, I'd say most accounts were written by missionaries for the church, so... Not saying they're total lies, just... Every ad telling you how great milk is for you was paid for by the Dairy Farmer's Association, you know?

But probably there were lighter touch forced conversions, & some areas would naturally be less oppressed than others, which isn't a pass for me.

I love that you're open to learning & exploring these things, @stueytheround but I don't forgive churches.

@PaganMother @jasod

@FernLovebond
The problem really is that the Celts' tradition was generally much more oral.
Not much was written down, but what there *is* is archaeological evidence.
Especially where I live in the far South West of Britain, where very few Romans bothered to turn up. Cornwall particularly has retained a great deal of its pagan roots.
The history is there.
Not in books, but in the land itself.

@PaganMother @jasod

@stueytheround
Ah, yeah, oral traditions are easily forgotten when the new fad of writing shit down comes to town, eh? Heh. You tell a story, but Fardo tells it different, the guy with the pen & paper says "Ho! One of you must be wrong here; your stories contradict. *My* story is *written*! It stays the same forever!"

On Romans again, while w/ UF there was a Eu history prof I heard say "every Christian today has an ancestor who had a sword at their guts to convert." 🤷‍♀️

@PaganMother @jasod

@FernLovebond
I can't argue with that.
Of course, the Romans were pagans too before Constantine converted.
They forced other pagans to worship their planet gods!

@PaganMother @jasod

3/3
Sadly, eventually the Church of Rome took overall control in 664CE when the old Celtic priests were 'defeated' at the Synod of Whitby and brought under the auspicices of Roman Catholicism.

That's when it all went horribly wrong for those who still practiced their ancient religion.

The Romans were 'conquerors' not 'evangelists' and so wiping out traces of old religion was standard practice even before Christianity.
@FernLovebond @PaganMother @jasod

@stueytheround
Mm, that's a really fair point, I'll admit. The "gentler" conversions the church writes of were also much more about manipulating extant narratives to become the Christian equivalents.

Locals have a tradition of kicking around a flaming ball of leaves and hides during harvest celebrations? No, no, that's actually a celebration of Christ's light in the world, & commemorative of St. Florian! It's a harvest celebration honoring the Florian.

¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

@PaganMother @jasod

@FernLovebond
Kind of.
A lovely piece of evidence of very ancient trade between the far South West of Britain and The Mediterranian is botanical.

The crocus from which we get saffron grows wild ONLY in Cornwall and the tradition of saffron buns continues to this day.
Crocus bulbs were traded by Iberian merchants (Spain ir Portugal nowadays) before the Romans ever even landed!

Also, the Cornish language itself is a form of Breton, one of the 'P Celtic' languages.
@PaganMother @jasod

@stueytheround
Okay, much as I love these anthropology thread hijacks, and you for your passion, I gotta wrap up and sleep.

One other reply, I'll catch you kids tomorrow.

Love to all.

🖖🌿💚
ᓚᘏᗢ

@PaganMother @jasod

@FernLovebond Yeah.I shoulda made another thread. Sweet dreams, dear friend.
@PaganMother @jasod

@stueytheround @FernLovebond @jasod it's alright knowledge use power!

@stueytheround @FernLovebond @PaganMother I am happy to be hijacked! I wouldn't have found that other thread. I am a #CoSoNoob