@wolfwoman I've heard that. It is quite profound.

Hate, to my perspective, is naturally entropic, that is to say, it takes energy. It is a cost intensive business, often demanding the sacrificing of one's peace.

Understanding, is naturally a rest state. It is a foundation and a fulcrum upon which further actions can be taken.

But, in contrivance of my earlier statement, I would say that love is naturally active. It is a choice, but holds understanding as a prerequisite.

#coffeethoughts

@NiveusLepus @wolfwoman Taking time to understand someone and accepting them is an act of love.

@sfleetucker @wolfwoman Absolutely!

@NiveusLepus @wolfwoman I don't know that understanding is a prerequisite for love. You can love without understanding.

But I think it is understanding that allows us to love fully, to make better decisions for your love.

@AskTheDevil @NiveusLepus @wolfwoman A loved one who has made extremely destructive decisions.

@poemblaze @AskTheDevil @NiveusLepus My little brother committed suicide when he was 38 and that is the single worst thing in my life. I was beyond furious and cussed him out for months. But hate? No.
My MAGA family members? No. I cut some of them from my life but no hate.

@wolfwoman Sorry for your loss. That's not the type of thing I was thinking about. Am thinking more about when one loved one kills or seriously harms another. Or you. Something in that realm. But everyon's reactions are different@AskTheDevil @NiveusLepus

@wolfwoman I understand the distinction you're making. @AskTheDevil @NiveusLepus

@wolfwoman @poemblaze @NiveusLepus To be fair, I've probably known a lot more people than most people have, and I've also deliberately put myself close to some of the worst ones, because of the nature of what I do.

I've only ever really hated a handful of times, and only when I really did get to understand the person deeply.

@AskTheDevil Interesting. I don't really hate anyone, at present. @wolfwoman @NiveusLepus

@poemblaze @wolfwoman @NiveusLepus When I finally realize that what I am feeling is hate, it really catches me off guard. It's not something I seek out, and I don't like it. I don't like being a person who feels or expresses hatred, and I don't like being exposed to things for which my body can find no other emotion with which to interpret it.

@AskTheDevil @poemblaze @NiveusLepus That is fascinating to me (BA in Psych, want fries with that?) I wonder if I have felt hatred in the past but didn't recognize it. I can't recall anything. I had a *very* quick and hot temper which often resulted in a violent action on my part. I had to, and did, learn to control that - perhaps in a furious moment, I felt hate. No idea! Then again, from a fairly young age I was taught something very similar to the maxim "hate the sinner, not the sin".

@wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze Hatred, I think, is a complicated emotion. Once it is recognized it can be decided upon.

Feelings are, but so is will. The question is, what to do about it?

Hatred is a natural response I think, to certain kinds of experience, but ultimately its a consuming force. I've heard it said its like drinking poison and expecting ones enemy to die.

I think its because it roots us back to a toxic event.

Pardon me while I ramble and wander through this. ^_^

@NiveusLepus @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

No rambling here. I have same experiences. Hatred is truly a choice. No one can impose it upon us.

@LnzyHou @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

I've encountered many teachings lately about store consciousness. How there are seeds of all mental states and emotions within us. Mindfulness, hatred, anger, compassion, etc.

Attention/engagement is like fertilizer for them, but even without that, they will still arise for a variety of reasons.

The "trick" is to respond to each state with an attitude of love and healing for oneself.

@LnzyHou @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

"Hello my hatred. I see you there, Im going to sit with you mindfully to understand you and heal you."

No judgement, no shame, just awareness, and then action and choice.

Feelings are, but so our are decisions about those feelings.

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

I occurred to me recently that the opposite of love is not hatred, but fear.

Of course, fear in denial can mask itself as hatred.

I could be wrong, but it was an interesting way to think about it :)

@ceorl @NiveusLepus @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

Absolutely true for me. My behavior, often over the top, was based in fear.

Therapy helped me see that.

@LnzyHou @ceorl @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to the dark side of the force." - Yoda

There's some real wisdom there, I think.

That said, I've been finding a lot of peace in looking at feelings in a non dualistic way. Much like ceorl is talking about, oppisities, but not good or evil.

They simply are. With our judgements come pain. With our awareness and acceptance of them (Not indulgence) I think comes healing.

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

Yoda had so many wise words. This one is right up there with "Do or do not - there is no try" for me.

@wolfwoman @LnzyHou @ceorl @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

@NiveusLepus @wolfwoman @LnzyHou @ceorl @poemblaze

Words to live by.

You are not your body. You are a soul. You _have_ a body.

@AskTheDevil @wolfwoman @LnzyHou @ceorl @poemblaze I think it was CS Lewis that coined that phrase. ^_^

@wolfwoman @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @poemblaze

Unfortunately, the most common way I see that quote being used is as a substitute for "pull yourself up by your bootstraps".

@AskTheDevil @wolfwoman @LnzyHou @ceorl @poemblaze An unfortunate interpretation from my perspective. None of us exist alone, or independently of one another. We are all inter being. Life is an interconnected web of perspective and experience.

There really is no me, without all of you. Physics bares this out in that observance on a particle level is necessary for existence.

@NiveusLepus @AskTheDevil @wolfwoman @LnzyHou @ceorl @poemblaze
Spawned from a psychologist. I have understanding of how some people are evil because of their history. Have a lit of compassion. But still can hate those that knowingly inflict pain on others. I don't regret hating true evil. Only that I can't fix it.

@NiveusLepus @ceorl @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

Judgment continues to rob me. I work on it daily.

@LnzyHou @ceorl @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze What do you think inspires you to judge?

@NiveusLepus @ceorl @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

Fear of questionable behavior which requires my evaluating personal risk.

A technique learned at a very early age.
I’ve been unspooling it ever since.

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

Oooh, this is getting even better, although long-winded. Short list for me: parents who ignore or treat their children harshly in public. Bad drivers. Most of the "isms"
Common factor: behaviors and attitudes that harm others!

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @wolfwoman @poemblaze

Cruelty.
Stupidity.
Cowardice.
Hypocrisy.

@AskTheDevil @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @poemblaze

Can we agree that stupidity is not at all the same as ignorance, please? ;)

@wolfwoman @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @poemblaze

I agree!

Ignorance is just not knowing something. Stupid is a choice where you go _against_ knowledge.

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @wolfwoman @poemblaze

That would be an excellent main-topic question!

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

An underdog getting the worst of it.

@LnzyHou @ceorl @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

Part of my daily creed is "Light and Dark must both exist. I will do what I must to maintain the balance for the balance holds all life."

Between everything we feel, everything we experience, everything we decide, between each extreme, that middle is us, and everything around us.

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

I have a yin-yang tattoo on my back for the light-dark symbolism. :D

@wolfwoman @LnzyHou @ceorl @AskTheDevil @poemblaze

You've got some rad tattoos!

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @ceorl @AskTheDevil @poemblaze
As do you!

Hmmmm. I don't have photos of all of them, but when my family returns from their big trip, I think I'll get DD to take one of each. Then start a thread here ... unless one already exists, lol. I've never looked for that hashtag.

@ceorl @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @poemblaze

I can't feel fear, and I can still feel hate.

We often try to find an opposite for our emotions, we seek a symmetry that puts everything on a sliding scale.

But each emotion is it's own, and you can feel love, hate, fear, and desire all at the same time for the same thing.

@AskTheDevil @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @poemblaze

The binary model for pretty much everything is pretty much useless :)

@ceorl @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @poemblaze I think there's a bias towards seeking symmetry.

But the reason we have an observable, moving, active universe is because of _asymmetry_.

@AskTheDevil @ceorl @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @poemblaze Gyroscopic equilibrium. Nothing is static, everything is ever in motion, but it remains within a range, go to far one way, and something pulls back.

Yes, our universe is entropic, the gyroscope is spinning down over trillions of years, but there are certain conditions within which existence can be as we know it here, and I think that is as true on a spiritual level as a physical.

@AskTheDevil @ceorl @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @poemblaze Ok my dear friends. I have to get on the bounce and get out to run!

@NiveusLepus @ceorl @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @poemblaze

I'm going to be pondering that now. Thank you!

@AskTheDevil @ceorl @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @poemblaze

So well said! In helping my kids and now grandkids understand and work through their emotions, I didn't have your excellent opening observation. But I did/do often lead them through recognizing they could feel several things at the same time and it was all OK. Just need to sort what it means for YOU and what YOU choose to do next.

@AskTheDevil @ceorl @NiveusLepus @wolfwoman @poemblaze

Triggering can take place in the most innocuous conversations. It’s up to me to process the resulting emotions.

Thank you for sharing yourself deeply.

@NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @AskTheDevil @poemblaze
People who hate seem to spend all their time and energy doing it. Up here in Canada, there are a lot of people that hate Trudeau. No one seems to know why they do just that others who hate Trudeau told them to. They spend more time getting their hate on than actually looking at the issues. Hate can act like a virus

@swinemiester @NiveusLepus @LnzyHou @wolfwoman @poemblaze

I strongly suspect that when most people "hate" something, it's not really hate. It's a tangle of fear, frustration, shame, defensiveness, self-loathing, confusion, and anger. They _think_ they hate because they are emotional toddlers.

@AskTheDevil @wolfwoman @NiveusLepus For a long time I felt a lot of anger/hatred, toward someone I felt really sandbagged me, but as time passed I realized the situation was a lot more complicated than just my view of it. This person completely cut off contact with me, put a wedge between me and others, then stole from one of the people she distanced me from. 4 years ago she died at 60, estranged from her children. She'd done more to herself than I ever could have. No anger for many years now.

@poemblaze @AskTheDevil @NiveusLepus

I imagine all of us have at least one such person in their life. I learned to forgive my 2nd ex, who left me for another woman, and (from what stepkids tell me because we are still cool and love each other) he is not living his best life since then. Some call that karma. ;)

@poemblaze @AskTheDevil @wolfwoman I've learned through a lot of hard knocks that situations are rarely as clean or cut and dried as my mind can make them out to be. Lots of wisdom in what you wrote there my sacred friend.

@AskTheDevil @poemblaze @wolfwoman @NiveusLepus

We have moved into some delicate inner sharing here. I applaud everyone’s willingness, and ask we be supportive and kind to one another.

Anxieties are on the rise.

@LnzyHou @AskTheDevil @poemblaze @wolfwoman Are you doing ok buddy? Is there a way I can be present for you?

@NiveusLepus @AskTheDevil @poemblaze @wolfwoman

Had a very difficult exchange with another resident this morning. As in raised voices. Guess I’m still very raw.

@LnzyHou @AskTheDevil @poemblaze @wolfwoman That sounds like a lot. Those kinds of encounter can leave me feeling quite shaken.

I'm here to listen. We can jump into another thread, or DM. ^_^

@NiveusLepus @AskTheDevil @poemblaze @wolfwoman

Breathing my way out of it.