African Americans patients account for just 5% of clinical trial participants in the United States and hardly ANY clinical research studies were done that included African Americans. Depression presents very different in African Americans and uniquely different in African American women. I'm constantly reminding Dr Song of this fact ... she's got a doctorate degree but that doesn't mean she knows shit about the African American plight or any psych data because there hardly is any.
1/
Everything you learn in schools especially anything medical or psychological ... only focuses on white centered data and I find it hard to believe that most people don't even know that. 5% 𝙤𝙛 𝙘𝙡𝙞𝙣𝙞𝙘𝙖𝙡 𝙩𝙧𝙞𝙖𝙡 𝙥𝙖𝙧𝙩𝙞𝙘𝙞𝙥𝙖𝙣𝙩𝙨 𝙞𝙣 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙐𝙣𝙞𝙩𝙚𝙙 𝙎𝙩𝙖𝙩𝙚𝙨 ...
She says things like ... "She's not depressed and doesn't present as depressed but she has a lot of anger and self reports being angry at herself."
And I said ... is this woman Black? And she was like how did you know?
2/
Here's what you write as the diagnosis:
𝙋𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙚𝙣𝙩 𝙝𝙖𝙨 "𝘽𝙚𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝘼 𝘽𝙡𝙖𝙘𝙠 𝙒𝙤𝙢𝙖𝙣 𝙄𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖" 𝙨𝙮𝙣𝙙𝙧𝙤𝙢𝙚
More info:
https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2022/december/depression-Black-women.html
https://wordinblack.com/2023/01/heres-why-depression-in-black-women-might-be-overlooked-by-doctors/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/088394179290036I
Contrary to what you may think: People are not the same. People don't have the same realities. AT ALL.
Dr Song is insanely good at what she does ... epic in fact ... but she's limited by the information, education, and research that she has available that has all been done by WHITE MEN on WHITE PEOPLE ...
African American psychology and mental health is very different from other groups and cultures ... I'm not saying it doesn't share some commonality with other oppressed cultures ... what I'm saying is almost every member of the #GlobalMajority is going to be different from the white centered minority when it comes to mental health and even presenting symptoms. You have to be AWARE of those differences and you wouldn't be unless you studied it and no one has until recently.
The Black Women's Health Imperative is the first nonprofit organization created by Black women to help protect and advance the health and wellness of Black women and
girls.
https://bwhi.org/2017/07/31/depression-black-women-know-youre-depressed/
Superwoman Schema, Stigma, Spirituality, and Culturally Sensitive Providers: Factors Influencing African American Women’s Use of Mental Health Services
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7544187/
--
To Be Female, Anxious and Black
https://adaa.org/learn-from-us/from-the-experts/blog-posts/consumer/be-female-anxious-and-black
--
12 Books on Behavioral Health Written By Black People
https://blackmentalhealth.com/12-books-on-behavioral-health-written-by-black-people/
The GP I had before was an Indian woman ... kind of racist ... but she called me paranoid when I talked about being wary going out into the world ... and this was while Donald Duck was in office and you could see how deeply frightening things were becoming. She was like you're being paranoid ... and that was one of the final straws as far as me leaving and finding a new doctor. She was a horrible doctor for other reasons but her flippant ignorance solidified it.
As my mother was so fond of saying:
𝙒𝙚 𝙖𝙞𝙣'𝙩 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙨𝙖𝙢𝙚.
Misrepresenting Race — The Role of Medical Schools in Propagating Physician Bias
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmms2025768
--
Medical Schools as Racialized Organizations: How Race-Neutral Structures Sustain Racial Inequality in Medical Education-a Narrative Review
𝙁𝙡𝙚𝙭𝙣𝙚𝙧 𝙚𝙢𝙥𝙝𝙖𝙨𝙞𝙯𝙚𝙙 𝘽𝙡𝙖𝙘𝙠 𝙥𝙝𝙮𝙨𝙞𝙘𝙞𝙖𝙣𝙨’ 𝙙𝙪𝙩𝙮 𝙩𝙤 𝙠𝙚𝙚𝙥 𝘼𝙛𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖𝙣 𝘼𝙢𝙚𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙖𝙣𝙨 𝙝𝙚𝙖𝙡𝙩𝙝𝙮 𝙚𝙣𝙤𝙪𝙜𝙝 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙩𝙤 𝙘𝙤𝙣𝙩𝙖𝙢𝙞𝙣𝙖𝙩𝙚 𝙣𝙚𝙖𝙧𝙗𝙮 𝙒𝙝𝙞𝙩𝙚 𝙥𝙚𝙤𝙥𝙡𝙚. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘨𝘳𝘰 𝘮𝘶𝘴𝘵 𝘣𝘦 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘢𝘬𝘦, 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴. 𝘛𝘦𝘯 𝘮𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 [𝘯𝘦𝘨𝘳𝘰𝘦𝘴] 𝘭𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘤𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘴𝘪𝘹𝘵𝘺 𝘮𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘴. 𝘕𝘰𝘵 𝘰𝘯𝘭𝘺 𝘥𝘰𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘨𝘳𝘰 𝘩𝘪𝘮𝘴𝘦𝘭𝘧 𝘴𝘶𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘬𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘶𝘣𝘦𝘳𝘤𝘶𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘪𝘴; 𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘶𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘵𝘰 𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘯𝘦𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘣𝘰𝘳𝘴.
and also
𝘗𝘦𝘳𝘩𝘢𝘱𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘪𝘷𝘰𝘵𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘳𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘉𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘮𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘤𝘢𝘮𝘦 𝘪𝘯 1910, 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘰𝘳 𝘈𝘣𝘳𝘢𝘩𝘢𝘮 𝘍𝘭𝘦𝘹𝘯𝘦𝘳 𝘱𝘶𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘩𝘦𝘥 𝘢 𝘳𝘦𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘰 𝘴𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘬 𝘳𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘯𝘪𝘻𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘧 𝘜𝘚 𝘮𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭𝘴. 𝘐𝘵 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘯 𝘶𝘯𝘢𝘴𝘩𝘢𝘮𝘦𝘥𝘭𝘺 𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘪𝘴𝘵 𝘥𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘨𝘳𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘵𝘩 𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘵𝘺.
𝘚𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘥 𝘉𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘱𝘦𝘰𝘱𝘭𝘦 “𝘢 𝘱𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘴𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘤𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘪𝘯𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘢𝘨𝘪𝘰𝘯,” 𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘢𝘪𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘉𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘴𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘣𝘦 𝘵𝘳𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘴 “𝘴𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘴” 𝘧𝘰𝘳 “𝘩𝘺𝘨𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘦 𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘯 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘨𝘦𝘳𝘺” 𝘵𝘰 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘵 𝘞𝘩𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘱𝘦𝘰𝘱𝘭𝘦. 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘳𝘢𝘤𝘪𝘴𝘵 𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘥𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘭𝘪𝘮𝘪𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘤𝘢𝘳𝘦𝘦𝘳 𝘰𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘶𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘉𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘣𝘭𝘰𝘤𝘬𝘦𝘥 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘵𝘰𝘸𝘢𝘳𝘥 𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘵𝘩 𝘦𝘲𝘶𝘪𝘵𝘺, 𝘴𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘷𝘪𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘮𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘴𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘰𝘭𝘴 𝘸𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘢𝘥𝘮𝘪𝘵 𝘉𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘱𝘩𝘺𝘴𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘥𝘦𝘤𝘢𝘥𝘦𝘴.
@thewebrecluse Thank you for educating me on this topic. It's horrible but people should know.
@thewebrecluse I think of all the times I've put on rose colored glasses and said "well they probably didn't mean it that way" and invalidated someones experience. I think what a mind job that would be and awful on mental health to have people telling you that you did not perceive situations correctly. I wish I could go back in time and be a better ally.
@AnnetteTRemain All that matters is forward. And you can't change whatever you didn't know. You can change based on what you now know though and that's the most important thing.
If you're white then you already know that white folks and especially white men love invalidating the lived experience of those they oppress. It comes with the skin I guess 🤣 But all you can do now is go forward and rise above as best you can ❤️
@AnnetteTRemain I'm only speaking for me when I say: I prefer educated humans who have good character, strong morals and empathy over people who are just performative in the "ally" department.
People who are actually true allies don't have to say or advertise that they are. Being an ally is something you simply are. It's in your character, it's in your beliefs, it's in your behavior every day. ❤️
𝘞𝘢𝘴𝘵𝘦 𝘯𝘰 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘨𝘶𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘢 𝘨𝘰𝘰𝘥 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯 𝘴𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥 𝘣𝘦. 𝘉𝘦 𝘰𝘯𝘦. - Marcus Aurelius
@thewebrecluse Your posts on mental health and medicine got me thinking about how I would reflexively AND ignorantly try to cheer up a friend or spin something positive in the same manner without considering "we are not the same". That 1) a white friend probably doesn't have the same history of being told they imagine something and/or being treated differently based on race and 2) that the levels of shadowy racism or microaggressions were not as high as they actually were.
@AnnetteTRemain You being able to recognize it now is epic work already. Think about how many cannot even see, understand, or even care about such things let alone admit they do them. That's huge to know, admit, and want to fix ❤️
The absurd thinking that everyone is essentially the same or that everyone shares the same reality is what creates even more problems and eliminates the need for empathy or understanding. It's a way that white supremacy makes white the default, the norm, the center.
@thewebrecluse I'm actually starting to want an AA doctor for myself after seeing people in trusted opinions support Trump and see all the racist garbage come out. After what I have seen I could not in good conscience tell a friend their kid would be ok in some places. And since I think racism is sociopathic I don't think I would want someone who is "helping" me either.
@AnnetteTRemain There was a study about African American doctors being available in general resulted in better quality of care across the board, not just for African Americans but for white folks and other groups as well. They generally give a better quality of care all around. So if you can find one, which depending on where you live is like trying to find a unicorn 🤣, go for it ❤️
@AnnetteTRemain I feel like African Americans (and others) are going to end up going back to something similar to The Negro Motorist's Green Book ...
As far as places and that aren't safe, places with tons of ignorant book burning education destroying people ... don't drive through these places or don't go to these doctors etc ...
Because, as you said, places aren't safe.
@thewebrecluse I wonder how many non AA psychologists would diagnose someone for something that was a real concern or indicate imagining things or too quick to assume worst. I've never thought about AA needing to go to AA professionals but obviously this needs to be addressed in the medical and psychiatric professions. There is harm from racism but also harm from ignorance.
@AnnetteTRemain Well put. non-African American doctors and psychologists are really not equipped to diagnose and treat African Americans and not simply because they're white or racist but because they have LEARNED all their information and education from predominantly white, male, and racist institutions and ideologies that STILL persist in currently graduating medical students. You only know what you have been taught ... which is going to be mainly chock full of white supremacist thinking.
@AnnetteTRemain As a result you get all these issues of misdiagnosis or African American's having their pain ignored ... I think I posted an article on here about that even in pediatrics African American children don't get pain killers when they need them because of racist ideas ...
@AnnetteTRemain So yeah ... non-African American doctors really have no business treating African American patients. Their education is LACKING 🤣
@thewebrecluse Different situation, and I'm looking just for medical understanding not cultural, which fortunately hasn't been relevant.
My doctors have been Indian, Chinese, Black, white, Iranian, Arab, Vietnamese, Korean, Slovakian. All American.
A young Black eye surgeon gave me pause - because he looked like he was still in high school. But 6 older doctors were shadowing him, learning from him in the university clinic, called him professor. So okay.😁
@walterbays are you asking something or? Telling me something ... ? I can't tell 😆
@thewebrecluse Just a random observation you triggered. I think you live somewhere most everyone is white and you stand out as the minority.
Where I live everyone is the minority. Most of them are used to it and enjoy the new experiences and flavors available. Some sadly do not. We had during pandemic some anti vaxers "observing" the mask laws by going to the store wearing KKK hoods.😥
@walterbays It's pretty diverse where I live. Most of the people in this area are either Indian or Black. I don't stand out at all. But when it comes to doctors, most of them are horrendously racist which you couldn't possibly notice as a white male.
@walterbays About 64% of the state I live in is white, 17% Hispanic, 10% Black. But the area I live in is quite diverse.
@thewebrecluse Glad you live in a good place. I hope you can find a great doctor, and that your insurance lets you keep them a long time.
@walterbays I already did a while ago. I have a suite of epic doctors all female and my primary is Black. It took 50 years for that to happen.
@thewebrecluse Wonderful!
I had a great primary for many years (male, Chinese) but then when I got a real problem insurance began denying care and I had to switch. I think I found another great doctor (female, white, Arab?)
@walterbays I would say that it's rare for men to have problems with doctors. Men will stay with one doctor for most of their lives because they get centered attention regardless of the gender or the color of the doctor. That's not the case for women or women of color. Any white male experience is not going to represent the reality for members of the #GlobalMajority. But I'm glad you have a great doctor 👍🏾
@thewebrecluse I wouldn't agree that men rarely have problems with doctors based on what I've seen with friends and family. But judging from my wife and my sister, I must agree men have better experience. Often symptoms a woman reports are disregarded which would be taken seriously if a man were complaining of them.
@walterbays I wasn't speaking from my opinion ... I was talking about studies of males and doctors and medicine. Statistically men are LESS likely to even go to the doctor and don't usually address problems until they present and are more reluctant. Statistically men stay with the same doctor because they rarely see them and/or they get better treatment by default. There's a handful of studies on it, easy to find if you look.
@thewebrecluse Yes I've seen news articles on those studies. That's understandable.
I could also understand why white doctors unawarely harboring racist prejudice might give worse care to Black patients. But I cannot fathom why Latino, Korean, Arab, or Black doctors would do so. Have there been any studies of cross race bias?
@walterbays Remember that in a lot of cultures, including other members of the Global Majority ... Black is still the lowest of the low. Many cultures (including Black culture) colorism (the preference of white or lighter skin) runs rampant which is an offshoot effect of white supremacy thriving in all cultures. Dark skin is bad, less desirable, etc. It's general racism that causes medical professionals of other races to mistreat Black patients.
@thewebrecluse I think in India discrimination and assignment of lowest dalit caste is worst against darkest skin people of the South, with highest status to light skin associated with ancient Mughal conquerors.
Japanese perceive and discriminate against dozens of ethnic groups we cannot perceive.
Remember the old Star Trek episode of the war between the half white and half black people? Both were offended when Kirk said you both look the same.
@walterbays Yep it goes DEEP and everyone suffers from the same effects of white supremacy and colonialism. No matter what country you go to. It's really messed up.
If you don't understand African Americans then you shouldn't assume that you would be ideal for treating them especially for anything psychological or even psychosomatic. If you learned from nothing but white men who completely ignored African Americans in all their studies, then how can you say you know anything about how they are affected by things or how they present with symptoms of things? You can't ... which is why African American's are ignored or misdiagnosed.