@iamwill1w9 @sumpnlikefaith
It's reading things like this which makes me realise how blessed I am. The UK church (all denominations) is deeply flawed and many folk can be hateful in their personal views, but never have I ever heard hatred from the pulpit.
I *have* seen homophobia on the corporate level. eg. some local churches signed a very homophobic letter to the Archbishop of Canterbury last year and guess what? Those churches are the ones which are dying.

@stueytheround @sumpnlikefaith Yep. I understand. Unfortunately, much of American Christianity was deeply influenced by anti-intellectualism, racist ideologies, and patriarchal systems in a nearly irredeemable way.

There are some beautiful exceptions in the US, but not enough. As much as I appreciate the good systems/churches/people, I’m not at all convinced we’re better off overall because of Christianity’s presence here.

(Bigger conversation needed, for sure.)

@iamwill1w9 I agree, and it's a heartbreaking truth. I'd like to believe that a backlash is coming and that more Christians will take a stand against the hate. I believe it's happening on a grass roots level worldwide and in the UK we're seeing more inclusivity in more churches all the time. The penny seems to have dropped and we're literally just waiting for powerful old bigots to die in order to affect real and lasting change.
It's a long slog but the USA *can* do it too. @sumpnlikefaith

@stueytheround @sumpnlikefaith I think that what the Episcopal Church is doing is on the right track. If people are looking for expressions of Christianity in the US that are more likely on a better track, I suggest they start there.

I attend a wonderful Episcopal Church here and work with young adults to help them have a safe, affirming place to explore faith without the pressure of being anyone other than the best of who they are.

But that kind of religious space is rare.

@iamwill1w9 @stueytheround And the church thrives on this "the way we've always done it" mentality, without any kind of awareness of how recent its patterns actually are.

So it keeps protecting itself from the changes that might redeem it.

@sumpnlikefaith @stueytheround Exactly. When the organization becomes the end itself, they’ve already lost.

@stueytheround @iamwill1w9 Yes, the ones here who have embraced this perspective here are dying too.

I mean, in many cases the machine might still be running, but that's all it's got.

@sumpnlikefaith @iamwill1w9
Who, among non-Christians would want to go anywhere *near* such hateful people?

"This is how they will know you belong to me: that you love one another."

If all they see is hate, they can't see Jesus. It's that simple.

@stueytheround @iamwill1w9
--Love your neighbour as yourself.

--Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

--But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you

I mean, it's like it's a whole theme or something...

@sumpnlikefaith @iamwill1w9
Ever notice that Jesus answered the question "Who is my neighbour" but never "Who is my enemy?"

@stueytheround @iamwill1w9 Ha ha! Good point!

@iamwill1w9 I wish there was only one weird church like this...

@HopeSeeker Right?! I can't remember where the collection fit in, but it is just bizarre to me now how well this schlock sells.

@sumpnlikefaith Yes! Spot on. I often tell people who are coming out of that religious world and angry at themselves for taking so long to leave, “You don’t know you’re in a cult until you’re no longer in the cult.”

It’s very sad.

@iamwill1w9 Just think about how often church people are even invited to define "cult."

(And that's only one example of a myriad of exclusively outward-facing boogeyman-buzzwords the church uses without clear definition.)

If church folks are unable to readily define it, how could they even begin to process its reality in their midst?

@sumpnlikefaith Absolutely right. Words are used without definition because they can be manipulated. It’s sad.

@iamwill1w9 @sumpnlikefaith
I read a book called "The Four Major Cults" and by their definition of the difference between a cult and a sect (extra-scriptural authority [the NT] unique end-times revelation, exclusivity [only believers can be saved] and some others), Christianity is a Jewish cult.

^^^ it was talking about JW, LDS, 7th Day Adventists and Christian Science Church, but from a Jewish perspective, Christianity fits perfectly.

@iamwill1w9 @sumpnlikefaith

@stueytheround @iamwill1w9 Some measure of self-awareness would certainly serve us well. As would extending some grace across these boundaries.

It's always been strange to me how focused human beings tend to be on what makes us different, instead of seeking out common ground.

@sumpnlikefaith @stueytheround @iamwill1w9 in our ancient past, fearing the outsider was probably a highly advantageous response. It kept the tribe together and safe from harmful opponents, as well as making them unite against the perceived threat. We don't need it as much now but I suppose that old habits die hard, especially when they have stuck around since antiquity.

@Cynanthrope @stueytheround @iamwill1w9 Cleary, there is a deep, instinctual element to fear. But this is something we humans have been trying to address for several thousand years, in various ways.

Yet now, people are somehow twisting the very language of welcome and hospitality into justification of prejudice, supremacism and xenophobia.

It's...a lot.

@sumpnlikefaith @stueytheround @iamwill1w9 maybe due to the uncertainty making people feel more afraid and out of control? We have had a cost of living crisis, environmental disasters and have not long come out of a pandemic. Scared people are more likely to believe conspiracies and maybe that's why people are even more suspicious of the outsider beyond what is healthy?

@Cynanthrope @stueytheround @iamwill1w9 You might be on to something. It's a really sad commentary of humanity if you are -- that a default way we try to manage our fear is to be scary.

Then again, this is the reality built into FDR's speech: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

Fear does indeed make people scary.

@sumpnlikefaith @stueytheround @iamwill1w9 it is not a uniquely human thing to meet fear with fear aggression. Ever tried to make friends with a rescue dog or cat? Looking scary either for the other animal to back down first or to strike at the perceived threat before it strikes first is not uncommon. I know from my own experience that fear and uncertainty makes me a less wholesome person. I'm more someone who is looking to hide and save myself than lash out though.

@sumpnlikefaith One of my favorite religious authors, David Dark, says, “Generalization fuels tyranny. Specificity outs it.”

@iamwill1w9 I like David Dark! Is he somewhere other than Twitter these days?

@sumpnlikefaith Unfortunately, no. His online writing is pretty hyper local right now, too. He is literally one of the only things I miss about being on Twitter. 😢

Such an amazing, thoughtful man! I want him on here so bad. Maybe we need to work together on this! :)

@sumpnlikefaith The worm theology part is especially abusive and denigrating. It denies self care while perpetuating dehumanization. Perfect cult like behavior. I’m glad that many Christians are NOT like this! 👍

@jaunty Exactly! It sets people up to be emotionally dependent. And once those pathways are forged, many other forms of exploitation and/or abuse become possible.

I'm glad too -- I know several people who are doing the hard work of untangling all these sticky strands of toxicity.