@Boyceaz @sfleetucker

Remember some Twilight zone type episode where a person got a forehead mark as a punishment for a crime. Everyone in society would treat him as if he didn't exist. He got mugged and a broken arm and couldn't get treatment. and that wasn't even the worst. It was the loneliness

Do not want to live in a society where that is a punishment. Civil fine and community service should be enough.

But put stockade for a few nights would also be okay

@Kinnison @sfleetucker Yup. And the Black Mirror Christmas episode.

@Kinnison @Boyceaz It is a terrible punishment, but it’s also very effective at making sure the behavior stops. Anyone seeing this wretched bigot will be discouraged from spouting racist lies. It’s a much better deterrent than prison, because it’s visible.

@sfleetucker

studies have shown people break laws mainly because they think they can get away with it. The consequences are not the deterrent

@Kinnison hmmm.... Do those studies include "shunning" as a possible consequence, or just the usual carceral tools of imprisonment, parole and fines?

@Kinnison I ask because in religious cults shunning is an extremely effective tool for controlling behavior. (See Amish, Christian Scientist, Mormon ...)

@sfleetucker

Yes, Negative enforcement is very effective. But also cruel and leads to abuse. There are better ways

I think it is better to improve society so much that people do not need to commit crimes to survive. And Not to use the fear of punishment to change behavior.

@Kinnison But this crime wasn't even close to being a necessity. She wasn't stealing bread for food (or to pay for drug even), she literally made up a lie for "clout" on social media, and then let that lie blossom into a massive assault on innocent immigrants.

@sfleetucker

what was the crime?

@Kinnison Stochastic Terrorism.

@sfleetucker

I am sorry, I should have asked you to be specific

show me the law that was broken. Stochastic Terrorism isn't technically a crime. That is a term used to describe behavior

@Kinnison And this isn't a punishment instituted by a court, they hypothetical action was a response from the community to her lying about a minority.

@sfleetucker

look. I dont think this discussion is going anywhere. Neither of us is going to change our mind and it is getting very muddled in details.

@Kinnison agreed.