I put it to you that any civilization advanced enough to construct a Dyson sphere is also advanced enough not to leave mid-infrared signatures of their having done it for the rest of the Universe to observe.
@mcfate I would argue any civilization advanced enough to do this likely has never had any reason to fear others externally or internally. Advances like this can really only be made by civilizations with a strong sense of working together and agreement on common goals and ideas.
The concept of intentionally hiding one's presence out of fear of being found is evolutionarily a prey instinct, as well as a very human one. So, we would be projecting our own values and fears on said civilization.
@mcfate if we look at our own solar system, it's not as if the resources we need are solely on Earth. Our neighboring planets and asteroid fields have significant resources the likes of which our future generations will drool all over. We continue to find planets in other star systems that may be unable to foster life, but their natural resources of gases and minerals make them lucrative investments for any space-faring species.
You come back after you've worked out how much stuff you need to build a Dyson Sphere.
Your aliens will treat inconvenient life just like WE did.
@mcfate again, my position is that any civilization advanced enough to make it to that point would have to be well beyond a warring one. So advanced that they either have nothing to fear from other civilizations or so peaceful that the thought of taking sentient life to gather those resources has never come across their mind.
If anything, we would be less like an inconvenience to resource gathering and more of a protected species. More than resources, knowledge is covered.
What actually backs up that assumption? It seems like not much more than wishful thinking to me.
Given the chance, species will proliferate endlessly. Resources are finite.
You're doing a lot of anthropomorphizing. "Protected species"? Why? "Protected" to what end? A zoo?
@mcfate could be wishful thinking. I just don't really see the necessary efficiency and productivity required for such massive projects to come from a species just as divided by conflict and political turmoil as our own. It's like the whole AI or robot take-over scenario...what we see in movies always seems to cater to cinema audiences rather than cool and logical heads.
We could be advanced enough to be colonizing mars by now if it weren't for our own constant wars, politics and religion.
@mcfate it's kinda why I hate movies like Independence Day from the perspective of the military tactics. The resources they needed exist in abundance in our galaxy, there really was zero reason for them to invade Earth, except for it would make a good movie. Lol. Tactically it's risking potentially massive losses and travel expenditures for relatively net zero gain.
If your species needs more "lebensraum", as it's inevitably going to, you're not going to be interested in uninhabitable worlds.
An alien species that makes megastructures is not going to get into a ground war with a less advanced species. They'll just wipe out the indigenous autochthons from a perfectly safe distance.
Subjecting the entire planet to a solid month of high-decibel infrasonic sound would clear away things pretty well.
Not to mention that losing one ship on a scouting mission for a civilization building ships bigger than the moon doesn't constitute a "massive loss".
I continue to have no idea at all what the upside of announcing our presence to more advanced civilizations is supposed to be.
If a bunch of Sentinel Islanders had somehow gotten to England in a canoe in the 17th Century and managed to find Isaac Newton, how would they benefit from this encounter?
@mcfate why Isaac Newton specifically?
I'd imagine our own encounter with intelligent life far beyond our own understanding would result in us being studied and the Earth or solar system similarly made illegal for entry until such a time that we can reach them. What resources do we really offer that makes us so lucrative to wipe out and risk the nuclear counter attacks?
A rocky planet in the Goldilocks zone is a pretty rare commodity.
What makes you think "nuclear counter attacks" would be a deterrent to a civilization that's taking apart entire planetary systems to build gigantic artifacts?
And Isaac Newton because there's nothing a Sentinel Islander could learn from him without undertaking a few generations of "getting up to speed".
Also interesting that you don't seem to view being forcibly turned into research subjects in a zoo as "hostile". What happens if we don't want to be "studied"?
@mcfate sorry for the late response,
I guess I just don't view morality as strictly a human trait, I think it's hubris to believe any other sentient species out there would just be immoral monsters by our standards when becoming that technologically advanced generally means an interest in learning over conflict.
Also, it's more I don't view creating essentially a restricted access wildlife reserve for "endangered species" but for our type 0.7276 civilization instead as a hostile action.
@mcfate I think I'm just a romantic when it comes to the idea of space exploration. I couldn't imagine why I would ever choose war and domination first if I encountered another civilization that would benefit from our knowledge. But it certainly is in our history that we've done this.
@mcfate it's a Goldilocks zone for us.
The odds of another civilization existing that we will ever discover are already extremely, exponentially low, let alone one that developed with the same environmental needs ours has. They could develop breathing methane or some other gas and our atmosphere could be toxic to them. The metals their technology is made from could be highly reactive with water. The odds of needing the same environment are just astronomical. π
@lacuda
Where will the advanced civilizations get the resources they need to expand their civilization?