How can you teach integrity to:
A) A child?
B) A mature adult?
C) An immature adult?
@LadyZurk
So, Trust is built by Integrity?
Can you still trust a person who is without integrity?
@Lindy @LadyZurk
I'm surprised you answered "no" on the first question.
IMO, Trump lacked integrity. He's an overt liar. But a vast portion (almost 1/2) of the society voted for him. They constructed a sufficient belief system to look past his lies and lack of integrity in order to follow and support him.
Am I thinking this through correctly?
@jurban too many variables. I trust x even though I know sometimes they forget to put _whatever_ where it goes. I know Y will do said task, but in their own time, not when they said they would.
@LadyZurk
So, timing is everything?
My point: Assessing integrity is used to determine if someone will act in a trustable manner. They will respect the Means as well as the Ends.
If a drug cartel kills a friend because they, the drug cartel, lack integrity, but eventually come around and recognizes their wrongful action, my friend is still dead. I would have been a fool to assume that they had integrity when they were deciding on killing my friend. (BTW, no friends were harmed :-)
@jurban Being surrounded by others with integrity and who will hold you accountable is very helpful.
I learned from my mentors.
@misslovelymess
Thanks.
Learning through emulation of mentors is a highly influential teaching approach.
But, what if the local mentors have little moral bearing? i.e. Drug Cartel. Can they still teach integrity? Does morality matter for integrity?
@jurban Really good question. People in those circles have their own set of values - as unsafe and violent as they are, they do have values. So yes, they can teach integrity to those values.
The question of morality is in the values, imo.
@misslovelymess
But, without fundamental values there wouldn't be the Law.
Is it possible that the Law is merely an average of the culture's values? Or, is there still something fundamental about integrity, morality and, ultimately, the Law? Can any culture ever justify murder and survive?
@jurban I would say that law is the average values of our culture.
Also, survival is an evolutionary instinct, and laws/group values are a mechanism to support our survival.
We already justify murder, no? War is justified murder.
@misslovelymess
War involves killing.
Criminal intent resulting in a death is murder.
I think "killing" and "murder" are slightly different and might have different ethical positions.
If a society was OK with murder, I don't think it could scale very much.
There is a concept of "natural law" where these ethics are addressed. This is probably where the evolutionary instinct is influencing our society's ethics and, ultimately, its definition of Integrity.
@jurban Modeling. Someone, I forget who, said integrity is a disease and you can only catch it from someone who has it.
@jurban , live it, demonstrate it? Not sure exactly which perspective or aspect you're thinking about. Ex: It's a core corporate pillar at work, is listed as a metric in my annual job performance review. What they're looking for is not having to stand over my shoulder to make sure I show up, do my work, don't talk about what I see, only look at what documents my job requires, etc. So, there's an accountability to others that "teaches" integrity to those that don't do the "right" thing. 🤔