There are certainly people who are taking advantage of the hatred, the division, and the strife. Like Fox News, Ben Shapiro, etc.

But the real villain, the real enemy, are the algorithms designed to take advantage of you, to use you, to discard you, to do what it is told to do without consequence of what the actions are.

To engage you. To manipulation your emotions. To bring you content that keeps you hating...... because hate drives clicks, hate makes you watch.

6/x

If you want to save the world, stop the division, stopping the grifters won't stop it.

You have to go after the corporations. Meta. Google. Apple. All of them, make these algorithms illegal. Ban them. Stop them.

The evil isn't coming from the other side, it's coming from where you are not looking.

The question is, what do we do about it? How do we explain it to people like my parents who are barely capable of using Facebook and email?

What do we do about it?

7/7

@quinnsentialOne the tough part of all of this is that even if you got rid of the algorithms, magically they all stopped tomorrow...

So many people are so far down their preferred rabbit hole that they personally would continue to push their preferred narratives.

Sure, algorithms are a big part of why so much RW content propagates

But a lot of that is also organically shared bc people are so deep into their ecosystem that they wish to share that information to the exclusion of all else.

@quinnsentialOne a lot of people incorrectly believe that (inset bogeyman here) is going to ruin they and their family's lives or outright destroy them, because enough other people told them it would.

We focus a lot on "grifters" and I'm not going to say people selling shit takes for cash aren't part of the problem

I am going to offer that I think too many well-meaning people have dismissed too many True Believers as simply grifters, and that's a big problem.

@The757Progressive My view is from my own perspective.

I didn't fall into the hole because I was a true believer.

I don't believe my family are true believers either.

I was a believer who didn't have anything else to believe. My beliefs were made up for me, and I embraced them because I saw nothing else.

That is the danger I see.

@quinnsentialOne hm I'll have to think about that one.

You've stumped me a bit lol.

@The757Progressive Of course, I agree there will be true believers.

But I don't think most are victims.

I look at my family like victims, and I want to find a way to heal them.

Maybe it's stupid or naive, but what other choice do I have? Just let them go?

@quinnsentialOne it's neither stupid nor naive to wait to heal the ones you love.

Nobody ever wants to let their family go.

Sometimes some people find there is no choice. Hopefully it won't come to that for you.

I don't want to sound like I am "disagreeing" with anything you're saying, because I think it's all valid and important to discuss.

I guess one thing that does puzzle me is perhaps the weight being assigned to the algorithms?

@quinnsentialOne what I mean by "weight" is

If I am understanding correctly, I get the sense you feel the algorithms are almost totally to blame?

I understand the position but I would inquire as to where human agency comes in here?

Are people so bombarded by algorithms that they do not have agency to not be drawn into them, and thus have their beliefs formed for them?

@The757Progressive No, people do have their own agency.

But it's getting harder and harder for people to be agents of their own identity when you're being directed by the machines telling you more and more what your agency is.

@quinnsentialOne

Machines may be telling people what The Purveyors of Information *think* their identity should be, because of reasons.

But people still have the ability to reject those algorithms by seeking out their own info / not clicking on suggested content.

Algorithms certainly point people in the wrong direction, 100%. However I do wonder if there's something latent that is also drawing people to those links beyond "a machine said I should click this".

@The757Progressive It is really hard to reject the machine when it is everything you see.

Have you ever seen what a Google search or Facebook feed looks like from a MAGA perspective?

It would really throw you for a loop.

@quinnsentialOne I haven't, but.

I'm not sure how to frame it.

If someone searches (insert question or subject here)

Like

Let's say "is Biden really president"

Sure they are going to get a bunch of Qult material saying "no" but, it's likely you'll get "normie" stuff like NYT or someone "fact checking" it.

If they choose to go down the "no" path...

Are the algorithms possibly just exploiting latent biases or presumptions?

@The757Progressive But this is looking at it from a way too logical frame of reference.

By the time people have reached the point "Is Biden really president?" they are already in deep.

And a Google search will give them a thousand articles telling them Biden isn't president.

@quinnsentialOne Do you know how someone might have even "started" down this path?

What's the gateway? Where does the fall begin?

If you know, or have a theory, lol.

@The757Progressive Also, a lot of Republicans aren't really crazy people who hate other people, or against gay people, etc.

While my family is ugly hard right, many Republicans I know are not hateful people.

BUT the kicker to this is that they are oblivious to the world because of the algorithm curated bubble. They work long hours, they don't see much social media, so they don't see the hateful stuff as much as you think they would be surrounded by it.

@quinnsentialOne Do these same people (not necessarily your family, but apply as it makes sense) support hateful policies?

If so, doesn't that make them hateful people?

Maybe they don't run around in Proud Boys colors looking for streetfights with LGBTQ activists all day, but.

Curious the nuance here

@The757Progressive Oh there are hateful groups in the Republican party, for sure.

But most Republicans are not seeing the hate, they are not presented with it in their day to day lives. What they hear are offhand stories which to them come off as "isolated" stories.

They don't read about the policies their politicians support or vote for. They're not reading it or seeing it.

I don't think they understand how important paying attention is.

I know I didn't, and I'm ashamed of that.

@quinnsentialOne the dialogue you're having now is important, and I think you're showing a lot of growth and self-reflection.

I appreciate the dialogue you're having with me and others at CoSo bc I think these are the conversations "collective we" should be having

@The757Progressive I'm glad I can be having this dialogue now. a few years ago, I would have never wanted to be anywhere near a Democrat, let alone talk to one. 😞