I feel terrible for everyday folks in Alabama today. (Just caught up on news out of the state, re: embryos now being "minor children" for lawsuit purposes.)
It's so easy to say "Alabama is a backwater, a lost cause", but most people there are just trying to get by, and there's so little hope right now of them being able to defend against the awful few striving to make the lives of women, families, and queer people even harder.
We could have built *such* a kinder world.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/20/alabama-supreme-court-frozen-embryos-ruling-ivf/72662533007/
Maybe they should get the hell out of Hellabama.
Considering the poverty rate in the state, it's not feasible for many families and individuals hit hardest by this BS - but I hear you, McFate. Would that there were easier solutions to scummy politics.
As I truly enjoy reminding people, an eleven-year-old walked from Ukraine to Estonia in mid-winter.
The only thing making it "unfeasible" is a lack of will.
I'm sure you're aware of how many people take perilous journeys across South and Central America to arrive at the US border as well, but "willpower" alone doesn't grant all of them safe arrival, let alone entry to a better life.
I understand that it's easier to blame individuals than address systemic failures, though. This is false attribution bias, but extremely common in our world.
I'm sure you understand that this observation has about zero relevance when it comes to a question of moving from one US state to another one.
Not to mention that it's a lot less effort to settle into the status quo and tell yourself that you'll just wait till someone "fixes" the "system".
Now on that, we agree! False attribution bias doesn't mean that individual humans don't still have a responsibility - and we certainly can't expect the system to change all on its own.
But the world is a complex place, and there are *many* factors informing our ability to improve our individual lives.
I'm sorry, when you claim "false attribution" you're also claiming that no person possesses sufficient agency to improve their situation.
Incorrect assumption. I was responding to your comments alone.
Without actually responding to them.
This is like a two-pack-a-day smoker insisting that the only problem he's got is that they put too much nicotine in cigarettes and that he'll quit just as soon as they stop keeping him addicted.
I did respond to them, with my illustration of how global migration is not sufficient to guarantee a better life. Willpower alone does not suffice for many, many migrants the world over.
But now you're getting into silly hyperbole. I admire how much you post in response to a lot of political BS in your area, and I appreciate that doing so habituates a certain combative attitude, but it's really not necessary.
We can just have a chat without leaping to personal attack.
But none of this has anything at all to do with "global migration".
You're going to need to point out where I "personally attacked" you. I don't believe I've done anything of the sort, that's a cheap imputation to make, and if you can't stand disagreement without feeling "attacked", block me.
One MORE time, we're not talking about "migrants the world over", we're talking about people in ALABAMA moving a couple of states over. They won't need to seek asylum.
No one can arrest them, detain them, or "deport" them back to Alabama. See how this isn't what you're talking about AT ALL?
McFate, I'm explaining why *your* comment about Ukraine and Estonia is why we moved to talking about global migration.
And again, false attribution bias - which you have been performing here - does not preclude the need for individuals to do the best they can to empower themselves *as well*.
Your original comment presented a simplistic, single-factor solution to a complex problem. When I pointed out that there are systemic factors as well, *you* brought in global migration.
We do not disagree that individuals need to do the best they can to empower themselves.
It is *also* not as simple as that.
I'm not suggesting that people from Alabama walk to Estonia. That seemed clear to me, but it's apparently a point of some confusion for you.
It's not absurd, when someone invokes an anecdote from global migration, to then point out the broader migration context that undermines their original claim about willpower alone being enough.
You could also have talked about by-their-bootstraps US success stories, which would have at least kept you within the US context. You didn't.
It is *okay* that you offered a poor first example of the point you were trying to get across. Conversation continues with clarification.
It IS absurd. I'm saying to someone with a persistent cough, "You should go see a doctor".
You're replying that there are millions of people in Africa without access to health care.
No. Again, the point that *you* made was that people in global migration contexts occasionally manage to have success stories.
I then responded in kind.
The Ukraine anecdote was a poor example if you wanted to keep it in the US. A JD-Vance-esque story might have better served the point you wanted to make (for all the problems with Vance's story, too, mind you).
You haven't responded to the situation of a person in Alabama YET.
Telling yourself (and others) that having agency "isn't enough" is a recipe for inciting inaction.
You won't know whether it's enough or not if you never try because someone assured you that "it won't help".
"Don't make any attempt to improve your own situation, it's too complicated" is not a message I'm ever going to be open to.
Maybe I should have cited "The Grapes of Wrath" instead. Then perhaps you wouldn't be getting stuck in minutiae this way.
ANd to be clear, the point that >>**I**<< made was that people can choose to do things for themselves.
Or they can suffer and be mad about all the "forces beyond their control" that make their suffering inescapable.
As I've said repeatedly now, individuals still have a responsibility to try to empower themselves as best they can in their circumstances.
So we are 100% agreed on that. Don't try to suggest that I'm saying otherwise.
You *know* that I'm one of those migrants - I worked hard to move from a country where I had fewer options, to one where I had more.
That *doesn't* mean we stop talking about environmental factors, too. We can and should try to make things easier for folks as well.
You repeatedly follow this admission up with various statements to the effect that it's not going to WORK or HELP, though. Because things are too COMPLICATED.
So, why would anyone bother?
No, I said it's a complex situation with many factors. Not that willpower is irrelevant. Just that it's not always enough.
But I hear you, McFate.
Neither of us wants to disempower individuals, and your comments are clearly coming from a genuine concern that talking about systemic issues will affect individual striving.
And I genuinely appreciate this chat, because now that I understand your underlying concern, I understand where the vehemence is coming from, too. Hardwon, and fair.
Maybe someday, I'll understand why you believe discouragement is an encouraging thing to be doing.
Possibly, but possibly not, and that's okay. This seems like a situation where zero-sum versus positive-sum activist thinking collide, and there's never an easy resolution there.
I don't block people, though, by the way.
And I genuinely appreciate the hard work you do pushing back on BS politics in your arena. I enjoy many of your posts here, and find that they make salient points.
So thanks again for sharing your dissent here. Vehemence is often 100% necessary to get things done.
I'll block people for telling jokes I find annoying. Just saying.
I'm a big fan of "curating my experience", as we say around here.
Oh, totally fair! And if you ever block me, I wish you all the best in the work you're doing in your neck of the woods. You know how important it is, and I hope you see many successes with it.
And you persist in conflating international migration with interSTATE migration and that's preposterous.
You can't possibly tell me that moving from Alabama to Illinois is the same thing as moving from the US to Colombia.
I'm Canadian, for the record. :)
Which is ALSO completely irrelevant.
@MLClark
It's sure not as simple as parroting the phrase "attribution bias" over and over and persistently making this into a discussion of something it's not about at all.