@Graci

I explore part of what makes time travel flop (the artificiality of the crisis) in this piece, but I *love* your example & closing note about season arcs, Graci! 👌

SNW has chosen to make the first 3 episodes strongly A-plot-driven character studies. I think this is an unfortunate choice that reduces opportunities to look at an ethical problem with depth through narrative contrast - but that's the arc so far. We'll have to wait & see if SNW S2 can sustain that structural choice well. 🤞

@MLClark you're dead on! That said, they were still decent.

@MLClark Re the "ethical problem" ... I've long had a time travel story in my head, waiting for when I have the "time" (pun intended) to write it.

The "ethical problem" is that the protagonist seems doomed to fulfill the timeline. No matter what he does to "fix" it, it fails. The universe wants it a certain way.

There's even a scene where he puts a gun to his head to change the timeline ... but it won't go off.

It's my way of giving the finger to time travel stories. 😉

@WordsmithFL

There have been a lot of really fun time travel stories in recent SF that play with that concept of inevitability. Not sure how much you're up on what's been published & TV/film-produced these days, but we've got versions that deal with the impossibility of breaking from systemic racism or generational violence, and versions that more playfully hash out the impossibility of breaking from closed loops.

Always room for more, of course! Hope you get to write yours at some point. :)

@MLClark I've been out of the biz for a while. I retired about two years ago, so I'm working on a space policy and politics book. (It's more entertaining than it sounds.)

Once that's done, I'm going to write a fiction. I have three ideas in my head. We'll see where Fate takes me.

@WordsmithFL

You're talking to someone who listened to NASA's whole 4-hour public meeting on UAPs to write an article on the importance of improving science literacy, so... that nonfiction book already sounds wonderful to me.

Hope you're finding it a joy to write - and may it find a good publisher and audience when it's ready to send out. 👌

@MLClark If you're interested, DM me and I'll tell you about the book. I'm happy to share some chapters. The more eyes, the better.

We don't have a contract yet, but an academic publisher sees each chapter. They continually reassure me, "We are seriously interested." They're leaving me alone to finish the first draft, which seems to work for both sides.

@MLClark I retired two years ago after ten years doing education lectures and tours at Kennedy Space Center. The book was inspired by the common political questions I was asked by the public. My college education was Political Science, and I dabbled for years in politics, so this project is a natural.

I also have a YouTube channel, "Space SPAN," where I've been collecting space politics stuff.

@WordsmithFL

Exactly that, Stephen. I talk about the contrived nature of the trope in the article. Even shows like DEVS, which *expressly* acknowledge infinite time streams, still ultimately have to contrive reasons we should care about certain timelines in particular.

It's a problem that attests to human limits to fully understanding what life in a multiverse would entail--let alone to building a coherent ethics from that view of reality. We are small, fleeting critters in a big, big cosmos.

@MLClark @WordsmithFL
(bonus points for mentioning Devs)

@MLClark My writing mentor, Sheila Finch, won an award for her first novel, "Infinity's Web." It explored these timeline stories. It's rather devious at one point.

https://www.amazon.com/Infinitys-Web-Sheila-Finch/dp/1434401588

@WordsmithFL @MLClark
Thanks for this mention, just purchased.

@codeWhisperer @MLClark

Greg Benford published "Timescape" in 1980, back when tachyons were a fad. He won a Nebula Award for it.

Greg was an astrophysicist at my hometown university, so yay for the home team. 😊

https://www.amazon.com/Timescape-Novel-Gregory-Benford/dp/0553297090

@WordsmithFL @MLClark
I've read that one, as well as most everything by "the Gregs" (Benford/Bear). In honor of your comment, here is a joke:
--------------
The bartender says "We don't serve your kind here"
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Two tachyons walk into a bar.

@codeWhisperer @MLClark Sheila FInch was my mentor. The Gregs were in her inner circle, so I met them often.

M.L., I saw you're active in SFWA. Sheila is longtime SFWA, so you may have run across her at one time or another.

@WordsmithFL @MLClark
ISO Advice: An earnest question for both of you: How does one go about seeking a writing mentor or a good developmental writing group? I've been trying various exercises with others to hone my writing, but with little success. The other party gives up or loses interest after only a few weeks. I've tried nanowrimo meetings but they seem to be more about socializing than doing the work.
Is there a good website out there to pair up with someone and help each other grow?

@codeWhisperer @MLClark

Hmmm, interesting question.
Here in #SpaceCoast, we have the Space Coast Writers Guild.

https://scwg.org/

Maybe something similar is in your area.

If you have an interest in a particular genre, seek out a genre literary convention. If your interest is SF, SFWA can help you:

https://www.sfwa.org/

Also try the English department at a local university or college. (1/2)

@codeWhisperer @MLClark

I kinda gave up on writer groups after a while. I felt like I knew what I needed to know. People who were more interested in having a knitting society didn't do me much good.

Joe Straczynski has a good book that might help you: (2/2)

https://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Writer-Staying-Artistry-Storytelling/dp/1950665887

@WordsmithFL @MLClark
Thank you for the book recommendation.

@codeWhisperer @WordsmithFL

I didn't follow a writing mentor path, and I'm not big on writing groups. I've tried them, and even ran one for a bit, but my local community wasn't well suited for the task. I find folks tend to want more from me than they can offer in turn. So, I mostly work alone. (And I was a SFWA mentor twice; that's a nice annual program.)

Some folks today use Codex to help get started as they professionalize. Wasn't for me, but it might be for you!

https://www.codexwriters.com

@MLClark Let me ask you this ... Do you consider yourself an introvert? I know I am. I've found that working alone usually is best for me.

@WordsmithFL

I don't think introversion is the issue here. I like my solitude and I'm also excellent around people. But as a writer I know what I'm doing, and collaboration is difficult to pull off well--in screenwriting, dramaturgy, fiction, and other creative realms.

What I have is a lot of projects, and no time to waste on folks who grow resentful of my interest in continuing my work when they think I've "published enough" & should be focused on helping them become pub'd & famous instead.

@WordsmithFL

Collaboration and having a reliable beta reader is fantastic if it works out. But no one should feel that they *need* to be part of writing groups, workshops, MFAs, etc, just to write and publish. Read the genre well. Follow magazines publishing on its front-lines today. Submit work. Acclimate to rejection. And keep going!

@codeWhisperer

@MLClark @WordsmithFL
I guess I don't feel that it's a *need* so much as a way to help find my footing. Low self-esteem and imposter syndrome flash their ugly mugs every time I get close to finishing and releasing something. But I do think that the concept of a "beta reader" is a good one, thank you for that advice!

@codeWhisperer

I hope you find a beta reader who knows what you're working toward and won't just tell you how *they* would write the piece.

I find that imposter syndrome doesn't go away for most of us, but I do hope you feel confident enough to explore sending out your fictions in due time. Rejection will happen! Getting past it is part of the process. Cheers, and happy writing!

@codeWhisperer Re the self-esteem ... I had to fight that too, for reasons. There comes a point where you have to decide if you're going to let your demons win or lose.

No one is going to love your work unless you love it first. You have to have the confidence to believe in your work, even if it's rejected.

I guarantee you, every book or movie has its critics, no matter how good. (1/2)

@codeWhisperer You also have to decide if you want to be commercially viable or not, i.e. do you want to make money at it. If you do, you need to know your target market. Writers Market is a good place to start:

https://writersmarket.com/

I used to make about $25K/year on the side writing copy for Star Trek and Babylon 5 licensees. Some writers got snooty about it, but I was being paid and they were not. (2/2)

@WordsmithFL Thanks for the additional input. Very useful!

@MLClark You raise an interesting point about collaboration ... I was around "Babylon 5" when Joe Straczynski was producing that. He had this five-year arc in mind. Originally he farmed out a few scripts, but eventually decided it was easier to do it himself, so he wrote 100 out of 110 scripts plus the four movies. All that was while he was showrunner. It was an amazing feat I don't think will ever be duplicated.

@WordsmithFL

Yep, JMS was a standard-bearer in that regard: not just with his five-year arc at a time of episodic TV series, but also in how he managed both to compress that story when the network screwed him over twice: once by pushing for a fourth-season closer, *and again* by then giving him back his fifth season.

Amazing feat as a writer and showrunner, even if tons of the worldbuilding in B5 doesn't hold up as well today. Londo and G'Kar were and always will be a gift to the genre. 👍

@MLClark A long story, but I was on set when that whole TNT Season 5 negotiation was reaching its climax. I knew a little of what was going on, but not how critical it really was to saving the show.

Don't get me started on "Crusade" ... 🤬

@MLClark You raise an interesting point about "resentful" people. I've run into that a lot, in writing and other endeavors. They don't want to put it in the work, so they'd rather sabotage you.

@WordsmithFL

100%. Nothing brings those people out of the woodwork more than my Analog sales, too. They've probably never read the pub in the last decade, but it's impressive the open envy a dude will admit to having, often without having submitted a tale for years. And then they'll have no qualms writing to ask me to help them get in... when they *eventually* write their next story. 🙃

There are writers, and then there are people who just want acclaim without work.

Back to work with me, BTW!

@MLClark @WordsmithFL
Thank you for your response.

@MLClark @WordsmithFL that is how it would be in real life I think for the average multiverse traveler. I know there are an infinite number of Julie's, but this one is in trouble and needs my help, or, but this one is beautiful and I love her, etc. As I think you are saying, we will never be able to wrap our heads around the multiverse. Nor should we. Each instantiation of a person is a real person. Doesn't matter if they are one of many.

@DavidKMresists @MLClark @WordsmithFL It's important to remember that the multiverse and time travel are parts of science fiction (I know scientists are working on these ideas IRL but this work is dubious) so the starting point for the average consumer is normal life in our collective universe. Consequently, suspended disbelief is required for enjoying a multiverse or time travel story because we will always default to our IRL experiences. Don't worry about trying to make it all make sense.

@danielbsmith @DavidKMresists @MLClark There's something to be said for a popcorn movie. Turn your brain off and be passively entertained for two hours.

@WordsmithFL @DavidKMresists @MLClark I don't think people have to shutdown their minds to enjoy these stories. Time travel stories have been some of the most interesting stories that I've ever experienced. They can be genuinely brain-bending and cognitively engaging. I just think there has to be some kind of mental shift to accommodate them. Accept the premise of the story world being presented and understand that this world does not follow the rules of the real one.

@eliredman

Ha! The important thing is that there's something for everyone. 😂

@MLClark One time I picked up Bob Justman for her class. I was T.A. with Ron Wilkerson, a TNG/VOY writer.

Bob produced a mint original typed paper with his original notes reviewing her "Tholian Web" first draft.

Ron and I were holding it the way you would hold a newborn. History in our hands. (2/2)